Draft Day 3 Thread

[offbyone]

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

We have 2 every down starters at linebacker, or they will be this year Holcomb & Jamin Davis. It’s very unlikely  that any LB we drafted was going to supplant them except possibly Devin Lloyd.

Even if we had drafted Brandon Smith, it’s very likely that he would’ve just been a special teams player too. Butler was viewed by most as the best special teams player in the draft. I don’t know that either would’ve/will played a lot on D this year.

I don't believe that at all.  Our starters are backups on other teams and could easily be supplanted. 

Brandon Smith could have easily been drafted 2 rounds earlier.  He is a real talent with real experience in big football games and nfl size.  He would have been a much better bet.

Didn't anyone even know who Butler was before we drafted him or Chris Simms tweeted about him?  

I don't remember one mention of him in our extensive draft thread before he was picked. 

I hope he turns into something, but for me this was a spot in the draft where there is still massive value and primo players and we drafted a special teams player and project safety.

 

[DCNative]

19 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I wanted Dean too. I’m with you there but I think we also should realize as Mknight said and I have said repeatedly that Holcomb & Jamin Davis are our two linebackers & they view them as that. We play nickel 75% of the game w/ 2 LBs & 5 DBs, either 3 safeties or 3 CBs on the field at one time bc teams throw so much.
 

Seeing that those two will be on the field 75% of the time, does it make sense to draft a LB in the 2nd round who’s only going to play 25-30% of the game?

Or, does it make sense to draft a DT who’s going to play 50% of the snaps in the 2nd round?

Yes if that LB can be better than them. You and Mknight defending our LB core is crazy to me. It's like Ron telling us things we definitely know aren't true. We know for sure Kyle, and O'Connell are gone more so because they didn't have a relationship with Ron like a Martin and the other GM. Yet O'Connell won a Superbowl and is a HC now. While Kyle is continuing his career in the ATL. 

You find the best player to make your Team better. That can produce Wins.  Not the guy that has been here the longest or knows your system. 

With this scenario your usage of Hudson is none existent. Where does he fit in to make us better? 

[MKnight82]

15 minutes ago, DCNative said:

Ok draft Dean and have him compete with Holcomb, Bostic (if still here) and Mayo. If Dean doesn't beat Holcomb at the begining of the year do everything possible to make sure he's ready to take that spot next year. 

Your really defending our LB core? Or tryna teach me something? 

I’m trying to explain to you why upgrading other positions was prioritized over linebacker. 

[lavar703]

Not drafting a LB in the second round was ridiculous. After what we saw last year how anyone could genuinely believe Jamin Davis is going to be a legit starter is beyond me? I hope it happens but relying on it is nuts. 

[taylor made]

9 minutes ago, offbyone said:

I don't believe that at all.  Our starters are backups on other teams and could easily be supplanted. 

Brandon Smith could have easily been drafted 2 rounds earlier.  He is a real talent with real experience in big football games and nfl size.  He would have been a much better bet.

Didn't anyone even know who Butler was before we drafted him or Chris Simms tweeted about him?  

I don't remember one mention of him in our extensive draft thread before he was picked. 

I hope he turns into something, but for me this was a spot in the draft where there is still massive value and primo players and we drafted a special teams player and project safety.

 

I agree with part of this. The selection was a HIGH fourth round so you are absolutely right in that it held a lot of value to grab a relatively unknown pre-draft 7th round-UDFA prospect. We could have grabbed a superior TE prospect like Isaiah Likely, Charlie Kolar, or Jake Ferguson. There was a run on TE prospects in the 4th round. I still like the Cole Turner pick. I'm not sure what you see in Brandon Smith though... all the reports on him are that he was all tools type guy and not really an instinctual/smart player. 

I also hated the John Bates pick last year though so at this point in the draft I'm not really confident in my assessments 

[DCNative]

14 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

I’m trying to explain to you why upgrading other positions was prioritized over linebacker. 

While I'm explaining how the DT position got prioritized. The Wentz trade and contract. They then had to release Matt and let Settle go to the Bills. They also will be giving up a 2nd round pick next just because Wentz plays 70-75% of the snaps. Not because he's good or great.  Witch made the LB position unprioritiezed when for sure it needed to be. The need for DT once again come down to Ron and his hand picked GM. I don't see how that's not the truth. 

[naptownskinsfan]

34 minutes ago, DCNative said:

Yes if that LB can be better than them. You and Mknight defending our LB core is crazy to me. It's like Ron telling us things we definitely know aren't true. We know for sure Kyle, and O'Connell are gone more so because they didn't have a relationship with Ron like a Martin and the other GM. Yet O'Connell won a Superbowl and is a HC now. While Kyle is continuing his career in the ATL. 

You find the best player to make your Team better. That can produce Wins.  Not the guy that has been here the longest or knows your system. 

With this scenario your usage of Hudson is none existent. Where does he fit in to make us better? 

Haven't read much of this conversation but what I do see from @turtle28's post that you quoted is that this is what Rivera views for the players.  I'm not necessarily saying that turtle is defending the players or not, but there comes a time when we have to realize what we've got is what we've got, and if the coaches are comfortable with those guys, it is almost not even worth arguing or posting about it.  

[DCNative]

9 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Haven't read much of this conversation but what I do see from @turtle28's post that you quoted is that this is what Rivera views for the players.  I'm not necessarily saying that turtle is defending the players or not, but there comes a time when we have to realize what we've got is what we've got, and if the coaches are comfortable with those guys, it is almost not even worth arguing or posting about it.  

I disagree. Continue to call out these coaches, owners, players, ect so that We the fans get to enjoy supporting a winning Franchise, not just one we have been attached to since we where young watching football on Sundays and fell in love with the game. 

[DCNative]

1 hour ago, offbyone said:

I don't believe that at all.  Our starters are backups on other teams and could easily be supplanted. 

Brandon Smith could have easily been drafted 2 rounds earlier.  He is a real talent with real experience in big football games and nfl size.  He would have been a much better bet.

Didn't anyone even know who Butler was before we drafted him or Chris Simms tweeted about him?  

I don't remember one mention of him in our extensive draft thread before he was picked. 

I hope he turns into something, but for me this was a spot in the draft where there is still massive value and primo players and we drafted a special teams player and project safety.

 

Witch was the same thing said mostly about the Safety they drafted last year in round 4 or 5. I understand they may have lost a special team player due to the DWI that lead to someone's death, but you don't draft a "Special Teams Gunner" that early with other valueable options available. 

[offbyone]

1 hour ago, taylor made said:

I agree with part of this. The selection was a HIGH fourth round so you are absolutely right in that it held a lot of value to grab a relatively unknown pre-draft 7th round-UDFA prospect. We could have grabbed a superior TE prospect like Isaiah Likely, Charlie Kolar, or Jake Ferguson. There was a run on TE prospects in the 4th round. I still like the Cole Turner pick. I'm not sure what you see in Brandon Smith though... all the reports on him are that he was all tools type guy and not really an instinctual/smart player. 

I also hated the John Bates pick last year though so at this point in the draft I'm not really confident in my assessments 

True on the Tight Ends and I would also throw out other defensive backs like Davis or Mathis as being better prospects.  

Maybe me being enamored with Smith is unfounded, but I think he could be a guy.

With Butler, I just think if he was drafted in the 6th round I would be cheering, but there was more than a few better prospects where he was drafted.  

Bates is a good counter point.  I thought Bates was a reach as well and I absolutely love him now.  He catches everything and his blocking is amazing and his run after catch surprises me.  He has already exceeded his ceiling and I really don't know how high it is anymore. 

[taylor made]

21 hours ago, offbyone said:

True on the Tight Ends and I would also throw out other defensive backs like Davis or Mathis as being better prospects.  

Maybe me being enamored with Smith is unfounded, but I think he could be a guy.

With Butler, I just think if he was drafted in the 6th round I would be cheering, but there was more than a few better prospects where he was drafted.  

Bates is a good counter point.  I thought Bates was a reach as well and I absolutely love him now.  He catches everything and his blocking is amazing and his run after catch surprises me.  He has already exceeded his ceiling and I really don't know how high it is anymore. 

It seems they saw the success John Bates had last year and tried to find replicas of guys like him this year. 4 year starters with consistent production throughout their college careers. I think the strategy has some holes - at least in the first and second rounds according to my research. Rivera kind of lost me this year with his drafting. Only time will tell!

[turtle28]

 

[turtle28]

On 5/1/2022 at 10:46 PM, DCNative said:

I disagree. Continue to call out these coaches, owners, players, ect so that We the fans get to enjoy supporting a winning Franchise, not just one we have been attached to since we where young watching football on Sundays and fell in love with the game. 

Everyone calls out the coaches & front office constantly. You are just not understanding what @MKnight82 and I are saying.

We aren’t defending Rivera. We are simply just telling you how our has been played the last 2 years & why we believe he has r signed a veteran starting LB yet or why they didn’t select Nakobe Dean.

The 3rd LB on our team will only play 40% of the snaps on D at most. Because of that, they’re putting more value into safeties who can also play Buffalo Nickel. That’s why they drafted Percy Butler over taking a LB in round 4. 
 

They view that Buffalo nickel positions as more valuable than a 3rd starting true LB but the Buffalo nickel type - whether that’s Curl coming down to play it, Hudson playing it or Percy Butler playing it - they’ll be on the field playing more snaps than a 3rd true SLB type LB who’s 240-250 pounds.
 

They’re doing this/having more DBs on the field to match up more with offense’s who are throwing more than 60% of the game with 3 wide outs and a TE who’s also lined up in the slot or out-wide instead of being lined  up like an in-line TE, this ain’t the 50’s-2010’s anymore. Offenses are spreading D’s out more now so, we have to have 5 or 6 DBs on the field more w/ just 1 or 2 true LBs.

[turtle28]

On 5/2/2022 at 9:15 PM, taylor made said:

It seems they saw the success John Bates had last year and tried to find replicas of guys like him this year. 4 year starters with consistent production throughout their college careers. I think the strategy has some holes - at least in the first and second rounds according to my research. Rivera kind of lost me this year with his drafting. Only time will tell!

I can go either way on it. It’s great to get seniors who are leaders/captains on their teams at the same time but juniors often have more untapped potential/talent that a coach can work with in hopes that of the two types of players that the untapped potential junior has a higher ceiling. The Senior is more of the safe/sure thing though… see Terry.