craig Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 A common theme by sophisticated posters has been that WR is pretty unimportant, that the Packers were fine with the guys they had, and kinda that only dumb/shallow losers would waste high draft-resources on WR. Gute spending two 2nd rounders, essentially using end-of-first-round value for a WR, suggests that Gute doesn't think all WR are relative unimportant and interchangeable. Essentially using 1st round picks on ILB and WR may either reflect that Gute is an idiot; or that if he isn't, that even non-idiots may still sometimes value players at ILB or WR enough to expend late-1st-round draft value on them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 Or… it could be that Rodgers was full of crap and Watson was still a first round pick for them and they would have taken him at 22 or 28 but Wyatt and Walker were mid to high 1st round players they couldn’t pass on. If Rodgers comes out and says they still have another WR with a first round grade that tips their hand tremendously and may lead another team with Watson rated as such, trade up before or with a better deal. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 15 minutes ago, MantyWrestler said: Or… it could be that Rodgers was full of crap and Watson was still a first round pick for them and they would have taken him at 22 or 28 but Wyatt and Walker were mid to high 1st round players they couldn’t pass on. If Rodgers comes out and says they still have another WR with a first round grade that tips their hand tremendously and may lead another team with Watson rated as such, trade up before or with a better deal. Yep. There's absolutely nothing about what Rodgers says that I took to mean Watson wasn't a first round grade for us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBOKOP Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 Looking at the situation, they were trading for a player, not a position. They valued him at the end of round one, which is a fair trade that he fell into the second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 1 hour ago, MantyWrestler said: Or… it could be that Rodgers was full of crap and Watson was still a first round pick for them and they would have taken him at 22 or 28 but Wyatt and Walker were mid to high 1st round players they couldn’t pass on. If Rodgers comes out and says they still have another WR with a first round grade that tips their hand tremendously and may lead another team with Watson rated as such, trade up before or with a better deal. Don't think so. Have to imagine that Walker and Wyatt were both 20 grades. Or in that tier. Watson probably was in that next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Don't think so. Have to imagine that Walker and Wyatt were both 20 grades. Or in that tier. Watson probably was in that next one. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t just a hair below and in the 1st round. I never said he was in the same tier. Obviously he had a 1st round grade for them this year. Edited April 30, 2022 by MantyWrestler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, MantyWrestler said: Doesn’t mean it wasn’t just a hair below and in the 1st round. I never said he was in the same tier. Obviously he had a 1st round grade for them this year. You can be a first round pick and not have a first round grade... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, CWood21 said: You can be a first round pick and not have a first round grade... I said 1st round grade “this year” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 5 hours ago, craig said: A common theme by sophisticated posters has been that WR is pretty unimportant, that the Packers were fine with the guys they had, and kinda that only dumb/shallow losers would waste high draft-resources on WR. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 7 hours ago, VicPez said: So -- Green Bay gave up two late seconds to move up to the beginning of the second round to grab a wide receiver. Based on the Jimmy Johnson chart, the Packers actually gave up more value than the 28th overall pick, which they spent on Devonte Wyatt. On some level, that's understandable -- you pay a premium to move up with a division rival. I know the Jimmy Johnson chart isn't the be-all, end-all of draft trade evaluation. For example, I stumbled upon this valuation:https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart-Rich-Hill.asp Excellent analysis. Back in the day there use to be a lot of stuff like this here. Again, well done! As you showed this was an obvious overpay, but I say so what. When you have a massive need you gotta do what it takes to address it. Gutes got himself in trouble at WR and did what he had to do to address it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddfather Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 On 4/30/2022 at 4:41 PM, Donzo said: Excellent analysis. Back in the day there use to be a lot of stuff like this here. Again, well done! As you showed this was an obvious overpay, but I say so what. When you have a massive need you gotta do what it takes to address it. Gutes got himself in trouble at WR and did what he had to do to address it. Just like he did with the defense, and the QB. Gute may not be perfect, but I love that he is willing to evolve with time, and be flexible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 Given the way the draft actually works in practice though, it's rarely a good idea to trade up in the draft. Teams are very likely to misevaluate players, so having 2 selections is usually better than 1, if they are in the same round or close to it. Trading 2x 50+ for 34 is probably a bad deal in almost every draft... unless it works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 40 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: Given the way the draft actually works in practice though, it's rarely a good idea to trade up in the draft. Teams are very likely to misevaluate players, so having 2 selections is usually better than 1, if they are in the same round or close to it. Trading 2x 50+ for 34 is probably a bad deal in almost every draft... unless it works out. Assuming the draft is similar in talent distribution and depth of quality players from other years. Hypothetically, is it better to try to get a player rated in your 2nd tier of players vs staying and drafting 2 players in your 4th tier of players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 I think you are missing a couple of factors there. 1. The Vikings probably also wanted Cine at 32. That way they get the player that they want, and have their own 5th year option. They get that extra year of control for their own pick. For all they knew, GB wanted Cine, then they wouldn't get their guy. I doubt we told them what we wanted, other than the pick. They may have even said as much to the Packers, and said they would take the same deal two picks later if Jacksonville didn't pick our guy. 2. How much Aaron Rodgers knows, and how much he is sharing. Perhaps everything he said on air was the gospel truth. Perhaps he was told to obfuscate, and was in on the entire plan. Perhaps the front office lied to him so that he didn't accidentally say something to tip their hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 Yeah, I feel like the Vikings not taking the deal at 32 but taking it at 34 is because they didn't want to risk losing the guy they really wanted by having him go #33, but there weren't two guys there that the Vikings absolutely coveted. If you see "Cine, and then there's a big drop in terms of guys who help us" you absolutely do what Minnesota did here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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