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The Marvel Cinematic Universe- X-Men 97 trailer (March 20)


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19 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

Basically, he trades in the cape for mortality so he can spend his life with Lois.  Then Zod and the crew show up, and he can't stop them.  So he has to do some growing up before the "last crystal" can be used to restore his powers.

Ah... that does make sense. I can remember that now. He goes into the fortress of solitude and the red light (I think) strips him of his power. IIRC he then finally defeats Zod and the others by tricking then into the crystal (something like that). Might have to rewatch that movie, it’s been over 20 years since the last time I’ve seen it.

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2 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

Makes sense now why they didn’t incorporate this possibility into their plans. Was confused as to how such a prepared franchise like the MCU wouldn’t have accounted for backups into their plans having such knowledge on hand. It also was confusing how such an open lipped community as Hollywood is could keep such a secret for such a long time.

This might be the only “good” thing about Covid-19 and how it’s impacted the launch and production of movies (Shang Chi, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, and Thor are all ahead of Black Panther in production)... the MCU will have more time to revise their plans to best plan for such an unprecedented situation. Marketing was already going to be severely impacted by this situation, will be interesting to see just how flexible they are in pre-production as well.

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38 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Ah... that does make sense. I can remember that now. He goes into the fortress of solitude and the red light (I think) strips him of his power. IIRC he then finally defeats Zod and the others by tricking then into the crystal (something like that). Might have to rewatch that movie, it’s been over 20 years since the last time I’ve seen it.

You are correct.  No need to re-watch if you don't want to.  I've seen it once since I saw it in theaters as a kid.

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1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

Yes, seriously. Recasting the role would be completely tone deaf, which would go against much of what Disney has also attempted to establish within their MCU. Diversity and tone has been especially big in the newer phases of their direction.

It’s not as if I am alone (or even in some small minority) in this thinking about T’Challa:

So while T’Challa is most certainly a great role for another actor to take the mantle of... after enough time has passed, Chadwick Boseman was the lead actor in the highest grossing solo Superhero movie of all time; he IS King T’Challa, same as Carrie Fisher is Princess Leia; replacing her was as unthinkable to me then as replacing T’Challa would be now. The tonal feedback is that many don’t want Chadwick Boseman replaced.

The script is still in the process of being written. So there’s little reason for tonality to not be taken into consideration.

They're actors. They get recast all the time. Not recasting takes away the biggest part for a black actor in the world.

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19 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

They're actors. They get recast all the time. Not recasting takes away the biggest part for a black actor in the world.

Recasting actors isn’t generally aligned to a specific societal tone either.

The only precedents we have for this are Paul Walker’s death for the Fast and Furious franchise and Carrie Fishers death for the Star Wars franchise. Considering Disney chose not to recast Princess Leia with Meryl Streep to continue their planned story of Leia’s pivotal role in the plot of Episode 9, that’s the best Disney precedent we have for this situation where a titular character is so closely tied to a person within a movie franchise.

What’s more because the MCU isn’t specifically tied to its comic book origins (and the comics themselves aren’t particularly tied down with character backgrounds and stories changing all the time). I mention this because it’s less similar to a book franchise like Harry Potter where recasting would almost certainly have to take place. There is far too much creative freedom for being tone deaf to be excused by “the show must go on” type of mentality.

The actor who takes up the Black Panther mantle will still be in the role as the “biggest part for a black actor in the world.” They simply wouldn’t be named “T’Challa.”

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Also the notion that Chadwick Boseman would “want the T’Challa role to go on without him” is also baseless projection at best and very unlikely at worse. Otherwise he would’ve informed Marvel about his health issues far earlier and/or released a statement about how he supported Marvel recasting the role posthumously, perhaps even provided us with a suggested actor that he particularly respects and trusts to handle the role in his stead.

He did neither, which leads me to conclude that we either can’t determine he was for a recasting or that he was against it all together. So unless a statement from his family is released mentioning that’s how he felt, I won’t believe such to be true... as it’s not consistent with his actions in this scenario to this point.

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35 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Also the notion that Chadwick Boseman would “want the T’Challa role to go on without him” is also baseless projection at best and very unlikely at worse. Otherwise he would’ve informed Marvel about his health issues far earlier and/or released a statement about how he supported Marvel recasting the role posthumously, perhaps even provided us with a suggested actor that he particularly respects and trusts to handle the role in his stead.

He did neither, which leads me to conclude that we either can’t determine he was for a recasting or that he was against it all together. So unless a statement from his family is released mentioning that’s how he felt, I won’t believe such to be true... as it’s not consistent with his actions in this scenario to this point.

You're projecting every bit as much that he didn't want this role recast. 

Dude was dying, he probably wanted to spend as much time as possible with loved ones and didn't give a **** about any of his roles.

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1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

Recasting actors isn’t generally aligned to a specific societal tone either.

The only precedents we have for this are Paul Walker’s death for the Fast and Furious franchise and Carrie Fishers death for the Star Wars franchise. Considering Disney chose not to recast Princess Leia with Meryl Streep to continue their planned story of Leia’s pivotal role in the plot of Episode 9, that’s the best Disney precedent we have for this situation where a titular character is so closely tied to a person within a movie franchise.

What’s more because the MCU isn’t specifically tied to its comic book origins (and the comics themselves aren’t particularly tied down with character backgrounds and stories changing all the time). I mention this because it’s less similar to a book franchise like Harry Potter where recasting would almost certainly have to take place. There is far too much creative freedom for being tone deaf to be excused by “the show must go on” type of mentality.

The actor who takes up the Black Panther mantle will still be in the role as the “biggest part for a black actor in the world.” They simply wouldn’t be named “T’Challa.”

Only in 2020 would we be talking about the racial implications of recasting an actor. This isn't Star wars where it was filmed and there was hours of content to be mined like it was with Fisher.

The closest example to this is the actor from Spartacus. Who was recast. 

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13 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

You're projecting every bit as much that he didn't want this role recast. 

Dude was dying, he probably wanted to spend as much time as possible with loved ones and didn't give a **** about any of his roles.

Please explain where and how I am projecting? I have not assumed his stance here.

I stated his actions aren’t consistent with the actions of someone that clearly wants someone else to take over his role, as if it were those actions would have been overt actions. I stated at best we can conclude that it’s non determinant and at worst we can conclude he didn’t want someone to take over the role... if one is to assume such actions are covert representations of his will... which I did not claim to assume.

My take however is that I don’t want someone else recast. That is my personal opinion. I am not claiming to speak for Chadwick Boseman and what he wanted for his role... as others have stated in this thread. That’s the difference. My feelings would only change if it’s made known that Chadwick Boseman actively expressed he wanted someone to take over his role... because what kind of man would deny a dead man one of his final wishes. So for that reason that would sway my opinion on this matter. But outside of that which we don’t have, I’m firmly planted in my personal stance.

So again, please show me where I am guilty of projecting here or concede such ridiculous claims. I’m not disrespectful enough to project onto a dead person something he would or wouldn’t want.

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12 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

I stated his actions aren’t consistent with the actions of someone that clearly wants someone else to take over his role, as if it were those actions would have been overt actions.

you are using lack of action as a reason which is a logical fallacy

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16 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Only in 2020 would we be talking about the racial implications of recasting an actor. This isn't Star wars where it was filmed and there was hours of content to be mined like it was with Fisher.

The closest example to this is the actor from Spartacus. Who was recast. 

Yes, the closest example to one of the most successful domestic movies of all time is a TV show that at its peak viewership had 3x less views than a truly culturally impactful show like Game of Thrones. A TV show with a history that is already set in stone and can’t be altered. A show where the main character expressed his desire for the role to be recast.

That’s a better example than other movie franchises that also faced similarly tragic and unexpected deaths from principal characters that were also some of the most domestically successful franchises of all time. Franchises that, like Black Panther, also don’t have their histories already set in stone. 

Cool story, bro. You guys can have this argument with logic like this.

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37 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

you are using lack of action as a reason which is a logical fallacy

No, I’m using a lack of actions to state that there is no way to claim what Chadwick Boseman would want.

So as opposed to reading my statement for what you want, so as to support your argument read the statement for what it actually means. People claiming what Chadwick Boseman would want are projecting their feelings onto him, which I find to be very disrespectful.

I on the other hand simply stated that at best we can conclude that it’s indeterminate, which I stand behind.

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Just now, diamondbull424 said:

No, I’m using a lack of actions to state that there is no way to claim what Chadwick Boseman would want.

So as opposed to reading my statement for what you want, so as to support your argument read the statement for what it actually means. People claiming what Chadwick Boseman would want are projecting their feelings onto him, which I find to be very disrespectful.

I on the other hand simply stated that at best we can conclude that it’s indeterminate, which I stand behind.

I did. And your thesis is that his lack of action isnt "consistent with the actions of someone that clearly wants someone else to take over his role"

If you didn't intend to read into it and pose a likely mindset then you might want to change it. 

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On 9/1/2020 at 4:46 PM, Deadpulse said:

Are you legitimately suggesting Apocalypse for a BP flick? Seems out there

I missed this comment.

Honestly not sure where you got Apocalypse there. He hasn’t anything to do with Storm’s origin story. I was referring to The Shadow King as I mentioned in my OP. Here is the part that refers to Storm’s origin/background with both Xavier and TSK.

Quote

Farouk became a crime lord in Egypt, controlling Cairo's Thieves Quarter (where a young Charles Xavier's pocket was picked by a child, Ororo Munroe). After Xavier stopped her and retrieved his wallet, he was struck by a bolt of psionic energy. When he recovered, he discovered that the source of the attack was a nearby tavern (where he met Farouk). Sitting at separate tables, they conversed telepathically. Farouk told Xavier that he sensed another telepath nearby, and the attack was a warning to stay clear of the area. 

He unsuccessfully tried to persuade Xavier to join him in his criminal activities; Xavier believed that people with such gifts should use them to better the world. They assumed astral form, and Xavier defeated Farouk on the astral plane with a fatal psionic attack. Farouk was Xavier's first encounter with an evil mutant, which led to the formation of the X-Men. His psyche still on the Astral plane, Farouk awaited another chance to fight Xavier (whom he now feared).[7][8]

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1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

I did. And your thesis is that his lack of action isnt "consistent with the actions of someone that clearly wants someone else to take over his role"

If you didn't intend to read into it and pose a likely mindset then you might want to change it. 

1. I’m not sure what’s going on with all your highlighting choices, it makes the post difficult to read.

2. No. Read the post. My thesis is that we can’t conclude what he would want at best, ie indeterminate. We can only conclude that his actions aren’t consistent with clearly (Read: Overtly) expressing that he wants someone to take over his role. To use the Spartacus example brought up by someone else:

Quote

"It was important to us to have Andy endorse the idea of recasting this part, which he did in the same heroic manner that he's dealt with his whole ordeal. And that, coupled with our fortune in finding a young actor with the gladiator credentials and the acting ability of Liam, makes it easier for us to keep this hit franchise going."

Andy overtly endorsed his replacement and he actively dropped out of the role to pursue aggressive treatment. We can conclude based on his actions that he supported the role being recast to someone else... because he overtly practiced that truth.

3 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Also the notion that Chadwick Boseman would “want the T’Challa role to go on without him” is also baseless projection at best and very unlikely at worse.

3 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

He did neither, which leads me to conclude that we either can’t determine he was for a recasting or that he was against it all together.

I have not stated here that Boseman is for or against a replacement. Only that it’s a baseless projection.

Whats more you need to brush up on your understanding of the logical fallacy of appealing to ignorance:

Quote

Appeal to ignorance fallacy occurs when it's claimed that a conclusion must be true if it hasn't been proven false, or false if it hasn't been proven true. ... Ignorance, or the lack of contrary evidence, is the main premise for the argument, hence the name “appeal to ignorance”.

I have not claimed a conclusion that supposes Boseman’s beliefs in my OP. Again and again I state that it’s indeterminate in that post as well as the ones following. How can claiming something to be indeterminate, when in fact it is so based on current evidence, is an appeal to ignorance fallacy?

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