The Marvel Cinematic Universe- Silver Surfer cast

[AlexGreen#20]

12 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

 

 

 

You are answering your own questions bro

You know, except for the parts that you didn't feel the need to quote where I provided very specific examples.

Something you're not going to do because they don't exist for Riri or Shuri because they aren't fully developed characters. 

[Deadpulse]

10 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

You know, except for the parts that you didn't feel the need to quote where I provided very specific examples.

Something you're not going to do because they don't exist for Riri or Shuri because they aren't fully developed characters. 

I already said I dont read the current BP run, so I haven't seen much of the new version of Shuri. As for Riri I can give you plenty of examples. 

Her shyness jeopardizes her spot at MIT because the dean there wants to use her as a spectacle since she is also Ironheart. She is constantly on the brink of mental breakdown trying to balance this unwanted attention, being a star student at MIT, and being a superhero with almost no support because her ONE friend was kidnapped and no where to be found. (she may have been found, I am behind on my reading). This also plays a part in her tragic backstory. She feels a responsibility to stay at MIT because they also set up her single mom who struggles to make ends meat back in Chicago, but if she loses her spot her mom is back to dirt poor as well. Her mom is the only person she trusts making her dynamics as a Champion extremely complex. She has trouble bonding with any of her fellow team heroes because of this lack of trust and also because the people she lets get close to her wind up dead or disappeared (her dad and step dad plus kidnapped best friend). She keeps everyone else at arms length because of this. 

Riri doesn't have the immense amount of stories that Spiderman has, she has like 30 issues to Pete's near 3000. However this is PLENTY of QUALITY develop in just what little ole me has read, which is not everything.  

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, Deadpulse said:

I already said I dont read the current BP run, so I haven't seen much of the new version of Shuri. As for Riri I can give you plenty of examples. 

Her shyness jeopardizes her spot at MIT because the dean there wants to use her as a spectacle since she is also Ironheart. She is constantly on the brink of mental breakdown trying to balance this unwanted attention, being a star student at MIT, and being a superhero with almost no support because her ONE friend was kidnapped and no where to be found. (she may have been found, I am behind on my reading). This also plays a part in her tragic backstory. She feels a responsibility to stay at MIT because they also set up her single mom who struggles to make ends meat back in Chicago, but if she loses her spot her mom is back to dirt poor as well. Her mom is the only person she trusts making her dynamics as a Champion extremely complex. She has trouble bonding with any of her fellow team heroes because of this lack of trust and also because the people she lets get close to her wind up dead or disappeared (her dad and step dad plus kidnapped best friend). She keeps everyone else at arms length because of this. 

Riri doesn't have the immense amount of stories that Spiderman has, she has like 30 issues to Pete's near 3000. However this is PLENTY of QUALITY develop in just what little ole me has read, which is not everything.  

So . . . like, you think any of this is actually logically coherent?

1. it's MIT. Why do they need a spectacle?

2. The Dean of MIT is going to yank a scholarship from an under privileged black girl raised by a single mother from the hood of Chicago, WHO BUILT HER OWN IRON MAN SUIT AT 14, because she won't be their mascot? Even ignoring the whole bit about it being completely insane from a PR standpoint, and it being completely logically insane from a student retention standpoint, it's also highly illegal. 

3. Being constantly on the brink of a mental breakdown isn't anything. A character either has the mental breakdown and does something interesting, or it's pointless angst. Riri isn't going to do anything, she isn't that interesting. It's just angst. Angst can be fine, a lot of great characters are angsty. But let's be real about what it is. 

4. Do you understand how completely absurd it is for an audience to be asked to feel sympathetic for a character who just is too good at everything, being the best student at the most prestigious engineering school, and being a superhero while basically handling both aspects flawlessly?

5. Her backstories tragic-ness is wasted by it's contrivancey. We get it, she's from the hood of Chicago. She's absolutely incredible and perfect for having overcome her terrible circumstances. If it mattered at all outside of political lecturing, it might actually merit consideration. Remember in #24 when a school shooting occurred at Miles school for, quite literally no reason and we had to jam a 5 page lecture in? Good times. 

6. She built an Iron Man suit at 14. If money is a problem and keeping her mom taken care of is a problem, leave school and go into private practice. Justin Hammer would write her an 8 figure check and give her a building. Hell, ask SHIELD for a startup loan. I don't care about people's whining about their problems when there's an obvious answer to it.

7. Her dynamics with the Champions isn't extremely complex. There's nothing about the Champions that is extremely complex other than how they managed to fit so many lame rip-off characters into one team and still managed to trick anybody into buying that book. We get it, you took the lamest avengers iteration, chucked them into a blender with a whole bunch of diversity juice and deaging goop, threw it on the table and labelled it "Bravely Reimagined". 

That's the headline. You're gonna stand here and honest to God stan for this ****show of a book?

8. We're seriously applauding "I keep people at arms length because people I get close to die?" It wasn't interesting the first 1000 times somebody used this on a character, and this certainly isn't the version that makes it compelling.

9. For all the problems she supposedly has bonding with teammates, it took all of about 30 pages to get her hooking up with Viv. She only appears to be socially inept when it  isn't inconvenient to making a point. 

 

[Deadpulse]

bro you are exhausting. Shuri and Riri are not the same character. That was the point of this discussion. You can not like Riri, her arc, or her book. That's your prerogative. However you can't sit there and tell me Shuri has all of that you just spent, idk at least 30 minutes typing out, in common with Riri. 

[AlexGreen#20]

13 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

bro you are exhausting. Shuri and Riri are not the same character. That was the point of this discussion. You can not like Riri, her arc, or her book. That's your prerogative. However you can't sit there and tell me Shuri has all of that you just spent, idk at least 30 minutes typing out, in common with Riri. 

Sure I can, they both originate from the exact same mental space, "Wouldn't it be cool if we made the wokest possible version of Iron Man/Black Panther?" 

For all the laundry list of stupid things about Riri, there's an almost as long list of things about Shuri. Shuri's just a little bit easier to accept on the basis that: we all have accepted Wakanda as a thing, Shuri's probllems outside of her hero identity are actually problems, and Marvel hasn't put Shuri on so many deeply stupid teams for her to be exposed as trash on.

Many of those criticisms are still valid

1. I'm still not going to be sympathetic because it's just so hard to be a super hero and a super genius princess. 

2. Shuri still goes through points of annoying angst.

3. The deeply unoriginal backstory

4. Shuri's personality flaws are the same ones that these people seem to write about every one of these replacement characters. God forbid any of these women has a flaw beyond lacking self confidence. The writer might get accused of being sexist and thinking all women are _____________.

I miss Storm or Rogue's temper. I miss Emma Frost's arrogance masking her shattered psyche. I miss Callisto's bigotry. I miss Wanda's need to have control. I miss Jean's selfishness. I miss Black Widow's dishonesty and callousness. I miss Jubilee's impetuousness. Heck, the old school love interests have more substance than these new characters. What seriously does a Kamala Khan character board look like?

 

[Deadpulse]

Read pre 2017 Shuri then. She's a pissed off Bword who left Wakanda to prove herself worthy of the BP mantle by killing a long lost relative (IIRC) and when she thinks she's done it and returns she finds T'Challa the king and BP and tries to kill him a lot. 

[AlexGreen#20]

10 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

Read pre 2017 Shuri then. She's a pissed off Bword who left Wakanda to prove herself worthy of the BP mantle by killing a long lost relative (IIRC) and when she thinks she's done it and returns she finds T'Challa the king and BP and tries to kill him a lot. 

I'm sure it's good. There's a ton of great Black Panther, especially the older stuff. But the pre 2017 stuff is essentially irrelevant to the character in all Marvel content going forward. Mary Stu Shuri is what we're very likely to get. She'll get the suit to offset any physical limitations she might have and then she'll have her science skills with her mother's wisdom and everything will cruise along just fine in boring copacetic. 

[THE DUKE]

The entire premise of a poor 14 year old building an iron man suit in their garage is ridiculous. Even in that cave Tony Stark had tens of millions of dollars of weapons parts and tools that would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars at the very least. It's not like he forged his own tools out of rocks and bare minerals. Then when he got back home he used billions of dollars in resources to develop the much better iron man suit.

[Deadpulse]

It takes a special person to get so worked up about something that hasn't even happened 

[AlexGreen#20]

6 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

It takes a special person to get so worked up about something that hasn't even happened 

We're just gonna act like New Avengers and Djalia isn't a thing?

[Deadpulse]

6 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

We're just gonna act like New Avengers and Djalia isn't a thing?

bro, haven't been reading BP as I said a few times, dont know what that is, and you were talking about the flicks but sure knee jerk to a new thing. 

[kingseanjohn]

6 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

Except he's dead.  Not blipped.  Dead.

[43M]

The more I watch Black Panther, the more issues I have with it.    The only thing I consistently like about it are the actors...even if their characters were idiots.  The movie was so overrated.  Not bad, but the story, directing and effects were in the bottom 3rd of the MCU library IMO.

I dont know what the new BP stuff will be like, but Im not impressed or excited based on what Ive read about the potential direction.....but that applies to most of the upcoming MCU movies except Spidey and Dr Strange.

[Deadpulse]

2 minutes ago, 43M said:

The more I watch Black Panther, the more issues I have with it.    The only thing I consistently like about it are the actors...even if their characters were idiots.  The movie was so overrated.  Not bad, but the story, directing and effects were in the bottom 3rd of the MCU library IMO.

I dont know what the new BP stuff will be like, but Im not impressed or excited based on what Ive read about the potential direction.....but that applies to most of the upcoming MCU movies except Spidey and Dr Strange.

You watching WandaVision? 

[THE DUKE]

17 minutes ago, 43M said:

The more I watch Black Panther, the more issues I have with it.    The only thing I consistently like about it are the actors...even if their characters were idiots.  The movie was so overrated.  Not bad, but the story, directing and effects were in the bottom 3rd of the MCU library IMO.

I dont know what the new BP stuff will be like, but Im not impressed or excited based on what Ive read about the potential direction.....but that applies to most of the upcoming MCU movies except Spidey and Dr Strange.

BP is a movie that gets weaker on every re-watch.  Like you said, there were some good individual performances, but there are story issues, effects issues, a bit of a chunky narrative, and the finale kind of mashes all those together.  If they try to bring back Killmonger, it will make it even weaker in retrospect.