The Marvel Cinematic Universe- Silver Surfer cast

[TecmoSuperJoe]

21 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

OMG, this is so wrong. 

MATH, IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT:

The Amazing Spider-Man 2 had a budget of 200 million dollars. 
HALF of a production budget is used in advertising. 
It spent another 100 million advertising overseas. 
It made 202 million at the domestic box office. 
It made 94 million in China.  China box office gives a quarter return on a dollar. 
It made another 400 million overseas outside of China, which gives 40 cents return per dollar. 

Budget + Advertising = 400 million dollars.
202 million domestic return (not even factoring in theater takes here)
23 million from China
160 million return from other foreign markets.

202 + 23 + 160 = 385

IT LOST MONEY.  IT WAS A BOMB.  WHY IN THE HELL DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD LEND SPIDER-MAN TO DISNEY IF IT WAS A SUCCESS? 

Studios care.  That's who cares. 

At everybody saying we need to stop this, we cannot stop this until people understand it. 

I've already crunched the numbers on Venom and I'm not doing it again.  It was not a success. 

If you can't understand that studios with annual budgets of a billion dollars consider 100 million dollars in profit a failure, you don't understand and will never understand. 

Where did you get the numbers they had for advertising? Their marketing budgets? That they used half? Get back to me when you have official numbers. Just want to see them for myself. Any articles that say Sony lost money on the film?

EDIT: Nevermind. Here is a link to a blurb about it. Technically, they didn't lose money. Certainly didn't make much, but didn't lose anything. I could see how that would be a bomb to a lot of people though.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadline.com/2015/03/amazing-spider-man-2-profit-box-office-2014-1201389608/amp/

There were already release ase dates scheduled for sequels after Amazing 2. Marc Webb backed out of one, and Andrew Garfield was let go after essentially ghosting Sony for a meeting. Apparently his attitude with the studio wasn't too great either.

Why is Sony green lighting a Venom sequel if it was so terrible at the box office? 

Edited August 21, 2019 by PapaShogun

[MacReady]

Just now, PapaShogun said:

Where did you get the numbers they had for advertising? Their marketing budgets? That they used half? Get back to me when you have official numbers. Just want to see them for myself. 

I've already posted ten thousand links.  The rule of thumb is that Budget + Half for advertising.  You can find that anywhere if you bother to look.  The Chinese market is typically 25 cents on the dollar.  That you can find as well.  Return from other foreign markets is anywhere from 50% to 30% on the dollar.  That is also readily available.  You can literally Google it.  I'll even Google it for you:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=the+amazing+spider-man+2+budget

Top hit says budget was 200-293 million.  Whenever you can't find an accurate budget, expect it to have been more because the studio is trying to hide their shame. 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=the+amazing+spider-man+2+budget
 

Quote

 

There were already release dates scheduled for sequels after Amazing 2. Marc Webb backed out of one, and Andrew Garfield was let go after essentially ghosting Sony for a meeting. Apparently his attitude with the studio wasn't too great either.

Why is Sony green lighting a Venom sequel if it was so terrible at the box office? 

 

You're talking about Sony.  They had greenlit another Ghostbusters movie only to slowly remove that announcement. 

Ghostbusters 2016 had a budget of 144 million.  Half for advertising. 

216 million dollar budget. 
Another 50 million for foreign advertising.
266 million total.
128 million domestic return.
100 million foreign return. 

I don't even think I need to do the math on this one to show you how much Ghostbusters lost.  They still planned on making a sequel. 

Do you really have to ask me why Sony is making a sequel to Venom?  If so, I'll answer:

Sony is desperate for content.  They have very little.  Disney has their MCU, Disney has hundreds of other rights to make movies from.  They have Men in Black, which they tried and failed to spark.  They have Jumanji, Resident Evil, Ghostbusters... Every attempt of theirs to start a franchise fails.  They have terrible people making terrible decisions on terrible movies.  If you want an answer to why there's a second Venom movie being made, the same answer is to the question of why they're making a Morbius movie.  Why they're trying to turn Spider-Man villains into their own franchise without Spider-Man.  Why they almost made a sequel to the most universally panned movie of the past two decades. 

The Amazing Spider-Man 2 was one of the biggest bombs in a long time, so was Ghostbusters.  Venom was not a significant bomb.  In fact, it probably was an EXTREMELY light success.  So they're going to try to milk that until their terrible producers meddle so much that it continues to piss off Tom Hardy (who was not pleased). 

You yourself just stated Garfield walked out on them.  What does that even tell you other than Sony is a cesspool of out of touch producers who don't know what audiences want? 

They are going to continue to make stupid decisions and make terrible bombs until the people at the top get fired or sell everything the same way Fox did to Disney. 

You're talking about a company who has made the following movies:

The 5th Wave
The Dark Tower
Ghostbusters
Pixels

...

They are on the exact same downward spiral as Fox was before Fox lost so much money they had to give it up. 

Sony is 10 years away from going belly up.  They just don't realize it yet.  That's why I'm laughing at them trying to back out right now.  Their stock just took a serious hit after this news broke.  They're about to introduce CARNAGE into a PG-13 movie, and even WITH Spider-Man, where do they go?  You can't do an MCU with villains and one hero.  That is dead and gone.  MCU ruined that.  It's why DC is failing so hard right now.  The MCU has forever changed superhero movies, and it's just taking a string of poorly-conceived decisions to end in about five years before studios realize that.  Within five years, Sony will have stopped production on all villain movies and sold them to Disney. 

Unless you honestly think that the villain Morbius is going to have a big enough fandom to support them. 

Venom is one of the most beloved comic book villains of all-time, and if that pull can't even make it a legitimate success, what do you think is going to happen to Morbius and its likely 150 million dollar production budget? 

[MacReady]

TL;DR version:

To anyone who hasn't watched Kevin Smith's anecdote about his attempt to write a Superman movie for a producer, I IMPLORE you to watch it.  It is the perfect anecdote to explain what is going on with Sony and its producers.  They are out of touch with reality.  They do not know what fans want, and they do not know how to make a movie that is actually good, and sooner rather than later, that WILL catch up with them the same way it caught up with Fox. 

[thrILL!]

20 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

TL;DR version:

To anyone who hasn't watched Kevin Smith's anecdote about his attempt to write a Superman movie for a producer, I IMPLORE you to watch it.  It is the perfect anecdote to explain what is going on with Sony and its producers.  They are out of touch with reality.  They do not know what fans want, and they do not know how to make a movie that is actually good, and sooner rather than later, that WILL catch up with them the same way it caught up with Fox. 

 

Sony not wanting a 50/50 split isn’t a surprise.   They think they’re hot bcuz Venom was financially successful even tho the movie SUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED.  Of course, Disney wants as much control and money as possible since they can’t have the rights back altogether. Who didn’t see this coming?  Maybe Disney will buy Sony.   LoL

Tbh the Marvel-involved Spidey movies aren’t that much better than Sony’s but it’s those appearances in Civil War/Avengers that make such a big difference.  At least we got 3 of them and even that was a huge surprise considering the circumstances.

And let’s not act like Into The Spider-Verse (from Sony) isn’t the best Spidey film of all time if not ALL superhero movies.  Maybe Sony will let the guys responsible for that direct a love action film and jettison Jon Watts. 

[thrILL!]

On the real, Kevin needs to focus on X-Men and Fantastic Four.  Maybe by the time those are out, he can circle back to Spider-Man. 

[Deadpulse]

Sony's statement makes it seem like Spidey could still be in continuity but with Fiege being less hands off. Probably just wishful thinking on my part though haha. It also strikes me as a spin job. Its not us guys! Still, Disney probably used him as a bargaining chip and justified their request for more control this way. 

[theJ]

2 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Sony is desperate for content.  They have very little. 

There are so many popular book series out there that could be spun into movies.  If they advertise well, they could take off.  Not everything has to be a rehash of previous movies.

I'd still love to see a Red Rising movie series.

[hornbybrown]

5 hours ago, The Gnat said:

This will be taking up a bunch of time on my Marvel podcast next week. I was planning on it being about what comes out of D23, but it'll probably be split between Sony/Disney and D23 now, that might be a lot to fit into 10 minutes.

What’s your podcast called and where can I find it

[kingseanjohn]

If nothing else, this situation has spawned some good memes.

 

 

 

[buddy_z34]

8 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

For the love of God, why are there two people on this entire thread that understand domestic versus international box office?

Venom did NOT make a ton of money compared to literally every other superhero movie made in the past 10 years. 

Suicide Squad made more money for DC than Venom made for Sony. 

This is all of course neglecting the backlash Sony would receive if they deprived Marvel fans of SpiderMan being in the MCU. 

If you or anybody thinks that there wouldn't be a massive backlash and boycott of the second Venom movie and every stupid Venom spinoff for them killing Holland's Spider-Man, you're out of your damn mind. 

 

I dont care about domestic vs international. Bottom line being it was Sony's highest money making movie EVER. Add in Spiderman, MCU's Spiderman, and they have a chance to blow Venom's total out of the water in a collaboration movie. Doing that do you expect any studio on this earth to give someone else 50/50% of the revenue. That's the point I was trying to make. 

[Acgott]

8 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

I think we need to hold a seminar on it honestly.  This entire sub forum needs schooling.  Too many people here like Transformers, Fast and Furious and spend hard earned money supporting DC.  I am willing to provide my services, but not without permission from moderators to bend a few forum rules.  The kid in Whiplash doesn’t go on to become an all-time great drummer without J.K. Simmons and his methods after all.  

Get back to me soon.  I don’t want to waste time prepping coursework if I’m gonna get the runaround.

I’m sure you can explain it without breaking the forum rules.

Feel free to use the box office thread we already have or you welcome to create a new thread explaining it if you so choose.

If not, the forum will just suffer without your commentary.

[MacReady]

I’m working on me.  I will try to be nicer.

[Acgott]

Sony has tried to spin this with the trades and it didn’t help at all. 

[Kiltman]

Seems like just posturing, they hit an impasse and need the public outrage to help push things.

I get it on both sides, but there is a ton of money on the table...have to hope they think with their wallets and come up with an agreement.

Hopefully they can also agree on a more established thing with the universe Sony is trying to make.
Being this little pocket universe is going to get odder. 

I think the 30% Disney wants isn't crazy for the work they put in. But they also get merchandising  and get to use Spidey for free.

 

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, Kiltman said:

Seems like just posturing, they hit an impasse and need the public outrage to help push things.

I get it on both sides, but there is a ton of money on the table...have to hope they think with their wallets and come up with an agreement.

Hopefully they can also agree on a more established thing with the universe Sony is trying to make.
Being this little pocket universe is going to get odder. 

I think the 30% Disney wants isn't crazy for the work they put in. But they also get merchandising  and get to use Spidey for free.

 

Where exactly is the 30% offer from Disney confirmed?  The only link I saw it wasn't clear that was the Disney offer.

I get they get to keep merchandising and park profits..but in context, 30 percent doesn't seem unreasonable at all.