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2018 Draftable QB Discussion


candyman93

Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold?  

72 members have voted

  1. 1. Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold?

    • Josh Rosen
      25
    • Sam Darnold
      47


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2 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

Would Josh Rosen be the number one overall if not for the durability/concussions/perceived character problems?

He has some limitations on the field but his style of play is extremely well-suited to the league and strictly from an X and O's viewpoint, pretty bust-proof. It's just the fear that he could get wrecked on any given play and decide to call it a day to save his brain.

I would probably still choose Sam Darnold, just because I love him as a prospect between his anticipation, accuracy, creativity, athleticism, leadership and clutch factor. But I think Rosen from a 'floor' perspective, if you removed the durability and character stuff, is the surest thing to be at least good.

It's crazy to me that it seems he is going to fall and be stolen by a team further down the draft. Maybe even the Patriots. And the rich would get richer. 

No, I’d still have him as my 1b. BUT I’d be going back and forth and finally settle on Darnold. Rosen is REALLY good. I just think Darnold can do more at the nfl level. Btw I guarantee he goes at 2, there’s no way he drops in this draft. 

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19 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

No, I’d still have him as my 1b. BUT I’d be going back and forth and finally settle on Darnold. Rosen is REALLY good. I just think Darnold can do more at the nfl level. Btw I guarantee he goes at 2, there’s no way he drops in this draft. 

Exactly how I feel. Except I am not sure he will go 2nd overall, though he should.

It seems there is genuine worry for him between his concussion history/injury history/perception of character and other interests.

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2 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

Would Josh Rosen be the number one overall if not for the durability/concussions/perceived character problems?

He has some limitations on the field but his style of play is extremely well-suited to the league and strictly from an X and O's viewpoint, pretty bust-proof. It's just the fear that he could get wrecked on any given play and decide to call it a day to save his brain.

I would probably still choose Sam Darnold, just because I love him as a prospect between his anticipation, accuracy, creativity, athleticism, leadership and clutch factor. But I think Rosen from a 'floor' perspective, if you removed the durability and character stuff, is the surest thing to be at least good.

It's crazy to me that it seems he is going to fall and be stolen by a team further down the draft. Maybe even the Patriots. And the rich would get richer. 

I think Rosen is a REALLY good QB prospect, but he is what he is.  He has been playing QB since he came out of his mothers womb and is perfect mechanically so the problems he has are mental and are much less easily fixed.

Darnold has only been playing QB for a few years, decision making wise, especially with the game on the line, he is already ahead of Rosen.  Also with how little QB he has played, some throws he makes with the accuracy he has on them on the move just wow you.  His fumble problems at least is very correctable based on how he caries the ball.  I think is issues are actually fairly easy to clean up and he has more to learn at the game which is a benefit.  Rosen has always been my 2 to Darnold.

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2 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

I think Rosen is a REALLY good QB prospect, but he is what he is.  He has been playing QB since he came out of his mothers womb and is perfect mechanically so the problems he has are mental and are much less easily fixed.

Darnold has only been playing QB for a few years, decision making wise, especially with the game on the line, he is already ahead of Rosen.  Also with how little QB he has played, some throws he makes with the accuracy he has on them on the move just wow you.  His fumble problems at least is very correctable based on how he caries the ball.  I think is issues are actually fairly easy to clean up and he has more to learn at the game which is a benefit.  Rosen has always been my 2 to Darnold.

Was watching the NFL Films 2004 Draft short documentary they just put on youtube.

The highlights of the college prospects in the clip are uncanny compared to this year.

Rosen is a carbon copy of Eli. And whilst I don’t think Roethlisberger (big power guy) and Darnold (big finesse guy) have a particularly similar play style, the one Roethlisberger college clip it shows is identical to many a Darnold college TD.

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17 minutes ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

In regards to Rosen, DaDucktator just posted something on the NFL Draft page that really dove deep into Rosen and pointed out that he may not be the QB we all thought. I recommend checking it out.

This is a post I made some months back about Rosen and Darnold, and perhaps some misassumptions about their games.

Went in again with another long watch of Darnold and Rosen. It reiterated many of the opinions I already had but I thought there were still one or two interesting new things I personally got from it.

Firstly, and perhaps most importantly for us. I really like both QBs. Short of both of them staying in school, I believe we are going to have the best and most talented QB we've had since the return.

Going to the basic analysis, as I say, it was much of the same information for me. They are very different prospects with both holding fantastic qualities and traits in their own right. With both styles absolutely being applicable to a top tier NFL QB. Sam Darnold's base qualities can be summed up fairly as physically strong, big, athletic and clutch with an even-keeled personality that correlates positively with successful NFL QBs. Josh Rosen's base qualities stand out in their pro-readiness, with a beautiful set of mechanics and wonderful accuracy in all types of throws.

That's two different styles of Quarterback, both with easy comparisons that can be found to prove their ability to be successful in the NFL.

Now here's where I found it interesting. Within those base styles, there were some nuances that one guy had, that you'd actually think would belong to the other.

Pocket presence for example. It's going to be found most in the pro-ready guy with the nice mechanics, who takes snap from under center in a pro style system, surely? Nope. And I believe this is a major oversight in the public and media narrative of this 'Battle of LA QBs'. Sam Darnold absolutely has better pocket presence than Josh Rosen. That's not to say he has better manipulation of the defense from within the pocket, in terms of moving safeties and some of the tricks of the trade that belong to elite pro QBs. I'm strictly talking awareness of his place in the pocket, movement around him, and when a pocket is breaking apart. Darnold has eyes in the back of his head. It's innate and brilliant to watch at times. He's not always consistent with it, but most of the time he's moving away from the threat almost simultaneously as the threat appears. Rosen on the other hand, does not quite have the pocket presence that he is made out to have. I was actually quite disappointed in his lack of awareness for the rush at times and his really limited mobility even within the pocket. I'm going to sound like a certain draftnik we're not fond of in here, but I expected more given his tennis background!

But now to flip it and give Josh Rosen some props for something that perhaps is unexpected from him. Hanging tough and willingly taking a hit if that's what it takes to make the throw. One might think that's more likely to be a trait found in the big, strong and powerful guy. And whilst it does ring true in the case of Darnold, it also does for Rosen. He might not have ideal bulk but he's definitely tough. He invariably takes the hit to try and make the big throw behind a dreadful line. And he keeps the mechanics intact at the same time. It's impressive.

I have long held the opinion that Darnold is a better prospect than Rosen. They're each not perfect; Darnold's funky release leaves me with some worry whilst Rosen's questionable decision making under pressure probably stand out as the main with each guy. But the positives far outweigh the negatives with both of them.

I still hold the belief that Sam Darnold would suit us down to the ground in the AFC North as a big, strong guy with a great combo of arm and legs, but also the mental capacity to process the game quickly at speed and make the clutch plays in key situations. But the more I watch, the more relaxed I am about the possibility of him staying in school, because Josh Rosen is about as secure a consolation prize as you could hope for in a draft.

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@Aztec Hammer Even with all that, there's evidence that Rosen's accuracy is not as great as we may have thought. His throws through tight windows, on the run, and on 3rd down were right down at the bottom of the pack alongside Josh Allen. He may not be as great at dissecting defenses as it initially seems on tape. I suggest you check out the post. It's very in depth. Check it out if you have time.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ok so I read the 2017 qb draft thread at the old site. That’s a danged gem. Closely resembles this one. You have decent takes and then those that replace opinion with their perceived fact. Brutal. Chad Kelly best qb coming out?  They probably urged you to invest in Kmart/sears back in the day. 

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5 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

Ok so I read the 2017 qb draft thread at the old site. That’s a danged gem. Closely resembles this one. You have decent takes and then those that replace opinion with their perceived fact. Brutal. Chad Kelly best qb coming out?  They probably urged you to invest in Kmart/sears back in the day. 

I read some nice ones too. Particularly enjoyed reading that Wentz is a project and Kessler looks better.

Kizer got most people, except a few who nailed the projection.

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4 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

I read some nice ones too. Particularly enjoyed reading that Wentz is a project and Kessler looks better.

Kizer got most people, except a few who nailed the projection.

Yep. 

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