2023 NFL Draft Talk

[mse326]

50 minutes ago, ET80 said:

A *bit* small? He’s 243 lbs - he’s giving up near 100 lbs to guys like Quenton Nelson and Trent Williams. Heck, Derrick Henry has him beat by close to 10 lbs.

He doesn’t have the bend of a guy like Nick Bosa (265 lbs) or the power of Myles Garrett (271 lbs) and his hand usage could be limited when trying to punch a guy who has that much mass on him. His speed needs to be beyond where it is, because if someone who outweighs you by 100 lbs locks on, you’re not going anywhere. 

I also don’t know how you can assume this is a non-injury risk - contact is guaranteed on every down when you’re in the box, how do you really justify this stance? This makes no sense whatsoever. If a big, strong, fast guy who has 100lbs on you hits you and drives you into the ground, there is no guarantee you just pop back up - there’s no flag coming out for roughing the DE, you don’t get fined for a pancake block - broken ribs and dislocated shoulders are absolutely on the table when you have a 250 lb frame getting driven into the ground by a 331 lb pulling G.

You’ll have to really go into this one for me to get it, because I’ve seen big Quenton Nelson pull around and seal the edge with bad intentions - I don’t care WHO you are, this is high risk:

 

Easy, blocking is not as violent as tackling no matter the size difference. And it's people of the same weight that are going to be tackling Young. There have plenty of LBs in the mid 240s. Von Miller and Micah Parsons were 246 at the combine, Clay Matthews was only 240, Lavonte David, Bruce Irvin and Myles Jack were mid 240s and aren't even rush LB, Mack I believe was 250 even. You even have ILB that were that small like Demeco Ryans, Ryan Shazier, AJ Hawk, Bobby Wagner, Paul Posluzny and Navarro Bowman.

You are free to argue his technique isn't enough to compensate, I very much disagree and his production shows it, but his size is not a worry. He really is only a bit small. He isn't playing DE

[ET80]

40 minutes ago, mse326 said:

Easy, blocking is not as violent as tackling no matter the size difference.

I would disagree on this - outside of some free rusher up the middle, which (smart) QBs are going to surrender themselves before impact, the collision rate is much higher along the line - this is more or less corroborated by concussion studies performed the NIH (the study is specific to concussions, but there’s a higher level correlation to impact in general - in the front seven, you’re going to engage and be engaged more frequently than anywhere else on the football field):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4628259/#!po=30.3279
 

Collegiate football athletes playing positions that experience more-frequent, but lower-intensity, hits, based on previous helmet sensor studies (e.g., offensive linemen), report experiencing more-frequent postimpact symptoms, more undiagnosed concussions, and report that they more frequently continued to play despite concussion symptoms. 

There’s anecdotal evidence as well - QBs can (and are) playing well into their late 30/40s, Calias Campbell and Jerry Hughes playing at 36 is pretty rare. The immediate as well as cumulative effects are very well documented - trench play literally takes years off your life, moreso than QBs (who are protected via rules as well as their OL).

There is such an emphasis on the rules to specifically protect the QB, the injury risk is mitigated; As I said in an earlier post, I think play style has more to do with injuries than play size - Watson, RGIII and Luck tower over Young, and they played with the confidence of guys with additional bulk - Watson dove and leaned head first on runs, RGIII never slid and dove around, Luck would simply muscle people off as they draped themselves onto him - these guys had prototypical size, but they allowed impact.

A guy like Young - with spatial awareness and pocket presence that’s better than I’ve ever seen from any football player at any level - can mitigate that injury possibility. Will he get hurt? I can’t really tell, football is a violent sport. But that’s the same thing I’d say about 6’ 4” 235lb Anthony Richardson or 6’ 3” 315lb Jalen Carter.

40 minutes ago, mse326 said:

And it's people of the same weight that are going to be tackling Young.

But there are rules (enforced on the field as well as via fines) that protect Young. Defenders try to tee off on Young, and they’re going to get a FedEx envelope the following Tuesday with a pretty hefty fine. OL who tee off on Anderson? They get a big “atta boy” from their position coach. That sort of action is going to deter behavior that we don’t want to see for our QBs.

The league goes out of its way to protect QBs - I don’t see why it would be different with Young.

45 minutes ago, mse326 said:

He isn't playing DE

I guess there’s a disconnect here - I have him pegged as an edge, all I’ve seen him do is play a 7 tech or a wide 9. You see something different?

[mse326]

2 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Collegiate football athletes playing positions that experience more-frequent, but lower-intensity,

Read the bolded, that is exactly what I said. Your talking accumulation, I'm talking single hits. Accumulation shortens a career and can lead to injuries late in career, but aren't likely to be injury concern early to mid career. It's hits that lead to those injuries.

 

5 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I guess there’s a disconnect here - I have him pegged as an edge, all I’ve seen him do is play a 7 tech or a wide 9. You see something different?

He's a standup rush OLB. Maybe some wide nine, but the point is he isn't lining up over an olineman where there is contact right at the snap

[lumberjackchris]

I don’t get this, because then what makes Young so special at 5’11. 

[Pastor Dillon]

18 hours ago, lumberjackchris said:

I don’t get this, because then what makes Young so special at 5’11. 

absolutely nothing. the only thing that Young has on Bensons is that he's like 3 years younger. Also I wouldn't be shocked if Young is more like 5ft 11.75 and Benson is 5ft 9. 

[Pastor Dillon]

Also with regard to the Anderson size debate, Anderson will be 6ft 3 260 pounds by his 2nd year in the league. He has plenty of frame for an NFL team to add to. 

[lumberjackchris]

 

[ET80]

5 hours ago, lumberjackchris said:

 

It would completely change the discussion and make that Colts W that much worse - it would also be the dumbest thing Stroud could do, his stock isn't going to get higher.

This being said, it could be because he knows where he DOESN'T want to be.

[Pastor Dillon]

9 hours ago, lumberjackchris said:

 

It’s just a slow media day. Stroud isn’t returning to school. 

[ObotimusPrime]

5 hours ago, ET80 said:

This being said, it could be because he knows where he DOESN'T want to be.

Not putting too much into it now, bc he will declare. But there is a chance will try to avoid the Texans. He has the same management team as DW4 and they work out together in the offseason - I think you’ve mentioned this before

[ET80]

11 minutes ago, ObotimusPrime said:

Not putting too much into it now, bc he will declare. But there is a chance will try to avoid the Texans. He has the same management team as DW4 and they work out together in the offseason - I think you’ve mentioned this before

This is a fallout from the poor management stemming from 2020. There is a brand issue here, and the quicker the Texans can admit to the mistakes made by past employees here, the quicker they can rehabilitate their brand.

It is what it is - the perception is pretty bad for this franchise. 

[lumberjackchris]

 

[ET80]

47 minutes ago, lumberjackchris said:

 

I really need Levis to run under 4.6 and uncork some bombs, and I need Josh Allen to win the SB - that way, people will create a narrative that they need to find a 6' 5" 240 QB who can spin it and wasn't successful in college.

[Blaze]

2 hours ago, lumberjackchris said:

 

Has to be Indy. No way Texans trade up to a spot they could have had outright if they wanted. 

Indy, pretty please do it and take Levis.

[ET80]

1 minute ago, Blaze said:

Has to be Indy. No way Texans trade up to a spot they could have had outright if they wanted. 

Indy, pretty please do it and take Levis.

Don't discount Chicago moving on from Fields - his advance metrics as a passer were actually worse than Davis Mills. He's a fine athlete, but (to this point) a poor passer.