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2023 NFL Draft Talk


lumberjackchris

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4 hours ago, mse326 said:

I so disagree. I am all on board building the team more and getting QB next season when the the QB's look better. Williams and Maye are both better prospects to me than Young and Stroud. And Richardson should go back to school and if he puts it together he can be a beast. 

I'm not thrilled with either Stroud or Young this year and frankly I don't think QB is even our biggest issue. Give me Anderson or Carter (in that order) and then get Mayer or one of the WRs that actually look to have #1 potential to have a real target that passes can get to.

While I get what you’re saying, I also don’t think that you look a gifted horse in the mouth - playing cute to get another top 5 pick in hopes of landing Caleb Williams is going to wear thin on an already apathetic fanbase, especially when there are two QBs worthy of top 5-10 selections. Another year of Davis Mills at QB will probably have fans walking away for good, and a retread such as Jimmy Garropolo or Baker Mayfield is going to feel like the QB version of hiring Lovie Smith. This is just as much a business decision as it is a football decision - it’s not ideal, but it’s where you find yourself after winning roughly eight games in three years.

In addition, we don’t know what these QBs are going to look like this time next year; Right now, Williams looks like the top QB in this draft, but who is to say he won’t regress? We already know both Young and Stroud held up after a year (Young doing so after losing two 1st round WRs and not exactly replacing them as Alabama usually does). I started off very cold on Young, but the more I watch him, I see something that can work in the NFL. Assuming he has a work ethic (no reason to believe he doesn’t) I can see him topping out in that 8-12 best QB range, which is enough to win in the NFL. Would you like a guy with top 5 QB ceiling like Williams or Quinn Ewers? Absolutely, I don’t think anyone would disagree. But you don’t need to WAIT for that top 5 guy, you can win consistently with the guy in the 8-12 range as long as you can continually build around him and supply him with tools to win - a defense, pass catchers, OL, etc. Young reminds me a lot of Jalen Hurts - might not be as dynamo of an athlete, but has greater natural arm talent. That’s a QB you want.

Another 2-3 win season next year, and it’s not a stretch to think Caserio is in danger of losing his job - we all get that he came into one of the biggest messes in the NFL, and he’s done an admirable job in cleaning everything up, but now he needs to make decisions that are less about cleaning and more about winning. Caserio can’t flounder with his HC and QB anymore - whoever is here in those roles in ‘23 need to be there in ‘24, when this team is finally in the “playoffs” portion of the rebuild.

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1 hour ago, ET80 said:

While I get what you’re saying, I also don’t think that you look a gifted horse in the mouth - playing cute to get another top 5 pick in hopes of landing Caleb Williams is going to wear thin on an already apathetic fanbase, especially when there are two QBs worthy of top 5-10 selections. Another year of Davis Mills at QB will probably have fans walking away for good, and a retread such as Jimmy Garropolo or Baker Mayfield is going to feel like the QB version of hiring Lovie Smith. This is just as much a business decision as it is a football decision - it’s not ideal, but it’s where you find yourself after winning roughly eight games in three years.

In addition, we don’t know what these QBs are going to look like this time next year; Right now, Williams looks like the top QB in this draft, but who is to say he won’t regress? We already know both Young and Stroud held up after a year (Young doing so after losing two 1st round WRs and not exactly replacing them as Alabama usually does). I started off very cold on Young, but the more I watch him, I see something that can work in the NFL. Assuming he has a work ethic (no reason to believe he doesn’t) I can see him topping out in that 8-12 best QB range, which is enough to win in the NFL. Would you like a guy with top 5 QB ceiling like Williams or Quinn Ewers? Absolutely, I don’t think anyone would disagree. But you don’t need to WAIT for that top 5 guy, you can win consistently with the guy in the 8-12 range as long as you can continually build around him and supply him with tools to win - a defense, pass catchers, OL, etc. Young reminds me a lot of Jalen Hurts - might not be as dynamo of an athlete, but has greater natural arm talent. That’s a QB you want.

Another 2-3 win season next year, and it’s not a stretch to think Caserio is in danger of losing his job - we all get that he came into one of the biggest messes in the NFL, and he’s done an admirable job in cleaning everything up, but now he needs to make decisions that are less about cleaning and more about winning. Caserio can’t flounder with his HC and QB anymore - whoever is here in those roles in ‘23 need to be there in ‘24, when this team is finally in the “playoffs” portion of the rebuild.

I don't think that highly of Stroud and Young. I think both have shown serious holes this year. They are the top of the class, but I don't see franchise QBs in them. And at pick 1 or 2 you take a franchise player, not just a really good player

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1 hour ago, mse326 said:

I don't think that highly of Stroud and Young. I think both have shown serious holes this year. They are the top of the class, but I don't see franchise QBs in them. And at pick 1 or 2 you take a franchise player, not just a really good player

I wasn’t too high on either as well; Still sort of lukewarm on Stroud (still like him better than most QB prospects). He’s had nothing but elite targets to throw to, guys who have both athletic ability and very high football IQ. He’s very comparable to Kirk Cousins - can play well if he’s surrounded by talent at every position. 

Young? I’ll admit I was low on him going into the season for a lot of the same reasons I was low on Stroud; Then I saw him in that Alabama/Tennessee shootout… and I saw a guy who creates on the fly and can adapt to multiple situations. He plays frantically, jumps and runs around in and out of the pocket, uses multiple arm slots on his throws and operates with a sense of urgency on every dropback. It LOOKS very frantic, like he’s got happy feet - but I’m finding out he’s in complete control in those situations. His happy feet, pump fakes, head fakes and look-offs are creating lanes and opportunities for this offense to move.

For the first time in a long time, Alabama isn’t just “out-athleting” everyone with their offense. Unlike Tua/Mac, Young isn’t throwing a ton to guys who will be drafted immediately in the NFL - he’s doing everything he’s doing with probably the least talented Alabama offense in recent memory (all that really means is there’s 1-3 FRPs as opposed to the standard 5-7 FRPs). But, Bama‘s offense isn’t really an issue (despite Bill O’Brien being completely predictable and horrible at playcalling - not a surprise to us, but that’s an argument for the CFB forum). They’re creating yards and scores because Young is simply willing those moments. That’s a really, REALLY rare trait to see used consistently. Our last FRP at QB had that ability - granted, it was on a MUCH larger scale in terms of frequency (he also had the more traditional tools you look for in a QB) but that ability to make something out of nothing is there.

I honestly think if Young was 6’ 4” 230, this would be a no brainer and Young would be much higher on people’s lists right now. I personally don’t like when people say “he’s just a winner” so I won’t say that - but I will say he’s got a set of intangibles that really can’t be quantified, but is absolutely noticeable when you see him on the field. It doesn’t mean he’ll be successful (especially if it’s Pep and Lovie cultivating him) but I think there’s a spark here that can turn a franchise around.

We’ll have to wait and see, I guess.

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1 hour ago, ET80 said:

I wasn’t too high on either as well; Still sort of lukewarm on Stroud (still like him better than most QB prospects). He’s had nothing but elite targets to throw to, guys who have both athletic ability and very high football IQ. He’s very comparable to Kirk Cousins - can play well if he’s surrounded by talent at every position. 

Young? I’ll admit I was low on him going into the season for a lot of the same reasons I was low on Stroud; Then I saw him in that Alabama/Tennessee shootout… and I saw a guy who creates on the fly and can adapt to multiple situations. He plays frantically, jumps and runs around in and out of the pocket, uses multiple arm slots on his throws and operates with a sense of urgency on every dropback. It LOOKS very frantic, like he’s got happy feet - but I’m finding out he’s in complete control in those situations. His happy feet, pump fakes, head fakes and look-offs are creating lanes and opportunities for this offense to move.

For the first time in a long time, Alabama isn’t just “out-athleting” everyone with their offense. Unlike Tua/Mac, Young isn’t throwing a ton to guys who will be drafted immediately in the NFL - he’s doing everything he’s doing with probably the least talented Alabama offense in recent memory (all that really means is there’s 1-3 FRPs as opposed to the standard 5-7 FRPs). But, Bama‘s offense isn’t really an issue (despite Bill O’Brien being completely predictable and horrible at playcalling - not a surprise to us, but that’s an argument for the CFB forum). They’re creating yards and scores because Young is simply willing those moments. That’s a really, REALLY rare trait to see used consistently. Our last FRP at QB had that ability - granted, it was on a MUCH larger scale in terms of frequency (he also had the more traditional tools you look for in a QB) but that ability to make something out of nothing is there.

I honestly think if Young was 6’ 4” 230, this would be a no brainer and Young would be much higher on people’s lists right now. I personally don’t like when people say “he’s just a winner” so I won’t say that - but I will say he’s got a set of intangibles that really can’t be quantified, but is absolutely noticeable when you see him on the field. It doesn’t mean he’ll be successful (especially if it’s Pep and Lovie cultivating him) but I think there’s a spark here that can turn a franchise around.

We’ll have to wait and see, I guess.

I view Bryce Young like I view Jabari Smith. Put him on a solid roster and they will make them competitive, more so than what they were. If you ask either to carry you at a young age, they aint that.....yet. Texans will have to go offensive heavy in the draft to maximize Young. The problem is they need help on defense too.

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23 minutes ago, Blaze said:

I view Bryce Young like I view Jabari Smith. Put him on a solid roster and they will make them competitive, more so than what they were. If you ask either to carry you at a young age, they aint that.....yet. Texans will have to go offensive heavy in the draft to maximize Young. The problem is they need help on defense too.

I agree on going heavy on offense. Get some people who can move the ball a bit.

Defensively, I think this is where Caserio has to start cutting checks in free agency; There is some semblance of talent on this defense (at all three levels, too - it’s not concentrated in a single unit, which is actually a good thing ) but what it lacks is NFL football IQ. A big part of that is Lovie, to be blunt. 

Now is the time to bring in some higher priced vets, not bottom barrel guys like Kamu Quitter-Hill or Steve Nelson - make a big FA splash here, find a guy who can be the mentor and contributor, bring in players who know what it takes Monday through Saturday to get game ready on Sunday - I’d say that plus a better scheme would be nearly as impactful as bringing in a highly rated rookie. Unlike the offense, there is explosive talent and blue collar contributors on defense - Sting, Pitre, Greenard, Harris, Lopez, Wallow. Under the right conditions, these players individually can range from everyday contributor to All Pro/Top 5 at their position; With the right leadership on the field and in the meeting rooms, these players can become impact players in the league.

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24 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I agree on going heavy on offense. Get some people who can move the ball a bit.

Defensively, I think this is where Caserio has to start cutting checks in free agency; There is some semblance of talent on this defense (at all three levels, too - it’s not concentrated in a single unit, which is actually a good thing ) but what it lacks is NFL football IQ. A big part of that is Lovie, to be blunt. 

Now is the time to bring in some higher priced vets, not bottom barrel guys like Kamu Quitter-Hill or Steve Nelson - make a big FA splash here, find a guy who can be the mentor and contributor, bring in players who know what it takes Monday through Saturday to get game ready on Sunday - I’d say that plus a better scheme would be nearly as impactful as bringing in a highly rated rookie. Unlike the offense, there is explosive talent and blue collar contributors on defense - Sting, Pitre, Greenard, Harris, Lopez, Wallow. Under the right conditions, these players individually can range from everyday contributor to All Pro/Top 5 at their position; With the right leadership on the field and in the meeting rooms, these players can become impact players in the league.

We always wish for big signings but they never happen. I will admit though my dream is to spend on Hargrave and Bates.

One really outside possibility is to give the massive contract offer to Lamar Jackson that he wants. I'd be willing to part with the two firsts it would cost for him given we picked up them up for Deshaun anyway. Would be like Watson for Jackson and 4th and 3rd. There is a real chance that he and Baltimore can't come to an agreement and we have probably the best mix of cap space to sign the contract and the draft picks to lose that we shouldn't balk as much at getting double hit.

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21 minutes ago, mse326 said:

We always wish for big signings but they never happen. I will admit though my dream is to spend on Hargrave and Bates.

Bates is my #1 on my wishlist. I’m also sentimental, so go and get this free agent…

Houston Texans Dance GIF
 

Rotational piece? Sure. But I think the fan base would immediately respond - business decision as well as a good mentor for younger guys to lean on.

21 minutes ago, mse326 said:

One really outside possibility is to give the massive contract offer to Lamar Jackson that he wants.

This would be incredibly ambitious… but I’d be all for it. I honestly think Baltimore will get it situated between now and the start of TC next year, but if not? Oh man, this would be an incredible turn of events.

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