Bucs Offseason '22

[RedandPewterReturns]

16 hours ago, indifference said:

how can you say someone stunk when we didnt even see him play wtf. Coaches literally called it a “red shirt” year so he can get the system down. So I dont understand how u can flag someone down knowing that. 

Im far from a fanboy dude. Im just being objective to the facts. I’ve came out and said roll with Trask/Gabbert this year and if he sucks move onto the next man. I prefer Bryce Young btw

i have no attachments to Trask. All im saying is where was this energy at for Robert Hainsey? 

Yeah because no player has ever progressed in OTAs before. Literally no progression happens there. It all begins during the pads only. You being dense is just the norm at this point. Pathetic 

Bc you dont take a backup quality QB in the 2nd round. What difference is it to take a guy like Eason or Fromm in round 4/5 and have them be 3rd string when the result is the same taking Trask? Davis Mills showed much more promise with less playing time in college. 

And Hainsley was a G taken at the end of the 3rd. I'm not going to waste energy on an OL being taken there and quite honestly is also looking like a wasted Pick if he doesn't win a starting G spot. Same with Darden who they moved up for in the 4th - we drafted a CB on day 3 who they want to move into return Duties bc he botched that spot. The 2021 draft is looking like we were still on the boat parade at Armature Works when doing evaluations. Only Tryon looks promising. 

Say what you want - but taking a QB in round 2 who looked absolutely lost - is a concern bc they should be able to atleast take 3rd string reps in year 1. IDC if he was "redshirted" or not. He didn't even look like he was a round 2 pick. 

[BucsDraftGeek47]

3 minutes ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

Bc you dont take a backup quality QB in the 2nd round. What difference is it to take a guy like Eason or Fromm in round 4/5 and have them be 3rd string when the result is the same taking Trask? Davis Mills showed much more promise with less playing time in college. 

And Hainsley was a G taken at the end of the 3rd. I'm not going to waste energy on an OL being taken there and quite honestly is also looking like a wasted Pick if he doesn't win a starting G spot. Same with Darden who they moved up for in the 4th - we drafted a CB on day 3 who they want to move into return Duties bc he botched that spot. The 2021 draft is looking like we were still on the boat parade at Armature Works when doing evaluations. Only Tryon looks promising. 

Say what you want - but taking a QB in round 2 who looked absolutely lost - is a concern bc they should be able to atleast take 3rd string reps in year 1. IDC if he was "redshirted" or not. He didn't even look like he was a round 2 pick. 

gona have to disagree here

Texans didnt have a choice with Davis Mills , i bet if Trask got the same playing time he'd have shown just as much

BA just hates giving rookie QBs ANYTHING , and BA has a Payton - Taysom Hill like fondness for Gabbert 

and the Draft is always a crapshoot, theres way too many examples of guys being drafted late that shouldnt have and vise versa

But i will say that last years draft was by far the worst one I've seen Lict be a part of , i'll give it the benefit of the doubt though since they probably werent used to picking so low  

[indifference]

2 hours ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

Bc you dont take a backup quality QB in the 2nd round. What difference is it to take a guy like Eason or Fromm in round 4/5 and have them be 3rd string when the result is the same taking Trask? Davis Mills showed much more promise with less playing time in college. 

And Hainsley was a G taken at the end of the 3rd. I'm not going to waste energy on an OL being taken there and quite honestly is also looking like a wasted Pick if he doesn't win a starting G spot. Same with Darden who they moved up for in the 4th - we drafted a CB on day 3 who they want to move into return Duties bc he botched that spot. The 2021 draft is looking like we were still on the boat parade at Armature Works when doing evaluations. Only Tryon looks promising. 

Say what you want - but taking a QB in round 2 who looked absolutely lost - is a concern bc they should be able to atleast take 3rd string reps in year 1. IDC if he was "redshirted" or not. He didn't even look like he was a round 2 pick. 

The difference between those QBs and Trask is that Bucs believe he fits Arians offense better…in the future as a starter…

Those qbs you named wont be starting before Trask minus Mills. And he started because texans has no other choice. I’m about winning now as the next guy so yeah I didnt want the QB either but we went in that direction. His upside is starting QB at some point - those other names will be 2nd string 4L. I liked Eason too as a prospect so I think there’s upside with him but he is raw. End of the day all of these young qbs are projects. Bucs may have gotten too cocky doing what they did. This could be a Romo-Dak type handoff if Trask pans out here. 

Now that you have addressed Hainsley. I dont think its a wasted pick if he does not win the starting LG spot. Goedeke and Stinnie have the physical advantage over him. You can find good guards in the third round - dont matter late or early. Dunno how good the guy will be but at least he wont be a turnstile a la Benenoch. Never hurts to have capable OL backups. Even if its “waste” pick during a small window.

[RedandPewterReturns]

3 hours ago, indifference said:

The difference between those QBs and Trask is that Bucs believe he fits Arians offense better…in the future as a starter…

Those qbs you named wont be starting before Trask minus Mills. And he started because texans has no other choice. I’m about winning now as the next guy so yeah I didnt want the QB either but we went in that direction. His upside is starting QB at some point - those other names will be 2nd string 4L. I liked Eason too as a prospect so I think there’s upside with him but he is raw. End of the day all of these young qbs are projects. Bucs may have gotten too cocky doing what they did. This could be a Romo-Dak type handoff if Trask pans out here. 

Now that you have addressed Hainsley. I dont think its a wasted pick if he does not win the starting LG spot. Goedeke and Stinnie have the physical advantage over him. You can find good guards in the third round - dont matter late or early. Dunno how good the guy will be but at least he wont be a turnstile a la Benenoch. Never hurts to have capable OL backups. Even if its “waste” pick during a small window.

Goedeke was drafted for a reason - that's because they do not have confidence in a Hainsley vs. Stinnie.  I think for a 3rd round G - Hainsley should have developed into taking over a starting role in 22. But he lost reps to Levertt or whatever his name is last year in preseason and practice reps. 

We can agree that the 21 class is looking like a wash. A lot of my evaluations on Trask go back to College. Just doesn't seem to have consistency. Watch the JT O'sullivan breakdown. You will see his ball placement on throws and reads in college will not translate to the pros. Too many times where he should lead the lead the receives up the field he lead them out of bounds. Just seemed like a reach to take a QB in round 2 who's upside is more a backup QB than starter. 

And i agree - I am on the Bryce Young train. Gladly the Saints traded next years first so they have ZERO shot at him. Hopefully the panthers and falcons win enough games to lose out there too. 

The Bucs have a good foundation for when brady retires. But that no use worrying now since he came back. I'm just not sure when the time comes - Licht has done a great job evaluating QB's from the college ranks. 

[RedandPewterReturns]

6 hours ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

gona have to disagree here

Texans didnt have a choice with Davis Mills , i bet if Trask got the same playing time he'd have shown just as much

BA just hates giving rookie QBs ANYTHING , and BA has a Payton - Taysom Hill like fondness for Gabbert 

and the Draft is always a crapshoot, theres way too many examples of guys being drafted late that shouldnt have and vise versa

But i will say that last years draft was by far the worst one I've seen Lict be a part of , i'll give it the benefit of the doubt though since they probably werent used to picking so low  

 

Ehh not sure I believe that. Trask looked lost and confused in preseason against guys who didnt make a roster. Mills looked more promising in live action. 

[BucsDraftGeek47]

1 hour ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

 

Ehh not sure I believe that. Trask looked lost and confused in preseason against guys who didnt make a roster. Mills looked more promising in live action. 

I agree there but Trask was also working with 3s and 4s 

If he got out there with our main weapons I believe he'd make some good things happen 

There's nothing like a baptism in fire, you sink or swim and that's when you find out what guys are made of

I don't like judging preseason too much because alot of it doesn't translate into the regular season

[Caaddy24]

9 hours ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

Goedeke was drafted for a reason - that's because they do not have confidence in a Hainsley vs. Stinnie.  I think for a 3rd round G - Hainsley should have developed into taking over a starting role in 22. But he lost reps to Levertt or whatever his name is last year in preseason and practice reps. 

We can agree that the 21 class is looking like a wash. A lot of my evaluations on Trask go back to College. Just doesn't seem to have consistency. Watch the JT O'sullivan breakdown. You will see his ball placement on throws and reads in college will not translate to the pros. Too many times where he should lead the lead the receives up the field he lead them out of bounds. Just seemed like a reach to take a QB in round 2 who's upside is more a backup QB than starter. 

And i agree - I am on the Bryce Young train. Gladly the Saints traded next years first so they have ZERO shot at him. Hopefully the panthers and falcons win enough games to lose out there too. 

The Bucs have a good foundation for when brady retires. But that no use worrying now since he came back. I'm just not sure when the time comes - Licht has done a great job evaluating QB's from the college ranks. 

Tryon is going to be good. They knew Hainsey was a developmental guy, they're in no way giving up on him. But they're not banking on him filling a crucial guard spot starting role either.

 

Absolutely no to Bryce Young. 

[kgarrett12486]

17 hours ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

We can agree that the 21 class is looking like a wash.

Man, I don't see anyway someone can come to that conclusion after (1) season and many of these guys being longer0term developmental guys coming out anyway.

[BucsDraftGeek47]

6 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Man, I don't see anyway someone can come to that conclusion after (1) season and many of these guys being longer0term developmental guys coming out anyway.

I agree

But as of rn it sure isn't looking great 😆

[Caaddy24]

Oh and I got no defense on Trask lol 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Caaddy24

[kgarrett12486]

16 hours ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

I agree

But as of rn it sure isn't looking great 😆

I get that a high level overview, it looks that way. it's still way too early though. JTS looked very good in a limtied role last year. If just he develops into what his ceiling can be, then it saves your whole class just there.

I don't get the hate on Trask.  Trask is 4th on the QB depth chart on paper last year. If you really dig into what the coaches have said and how they treat the situation, the reality is that Griffin is nothing nothing than an extension of the coaching staff. He's very valuable in that aspect and why they continue to keep him around. However, I forgot who said it (think it was Lefty) but basically if push came to shove and they had needed a QB last year beyond Brady and Gabbert, they still would have gone to Trask even with him being so raw still.

I mean, the staff has said they were going to bring Trask along very slowly and they've done just that. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by kgarrett12486

[BucsDraftGeek47]

2 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

I get that a high level overview, it looks that way. it's still way too early though. JTS looked very good in a limtied role last year. If just he develops into what his ceiling can be, then it saves your whole class just there.

I don't get the hate on Trask.  Trask is 4th on the QB depth chart on paper last year. If you really dig into what the coaches have said and how they treat the situation, the reality is that Griffin is nothing nothing than an extension of the coaching staff. He's very valuable in that aspect and why they continue to keep him around. However, I forgot who said it (think it was Lefty) but basically if push came to shove and they had needed a QB last year beyond Brady and Gabbert, they still would have gone to Trask even with him being so raw still.

I mean, the staff has said they were going to bring Trask along very slowly and they've done just that. 

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm Still probably the biggest believer in Trask just like i was when we made the pick. I still think hes just as good as Mac Jones, just didn't get the opportunity . Everyone will scoff at that but I'm just basing that off the college tape.

JTS I was wrong about, he's good. But even with how good he's hasn't been consistent at all, only flashed 

Hainsey should hv been in the running to take the LG spot but with us drafting Goedeke that's a bit of a tell, that Hainsey ain't it. He could still be a rotational backup  

Darden , who got a ton of hype , has been a tragedy as a returner and not shown anything as a wr.

So that class isn't looking good.  But I still trust Licht. He's earned it.

[RedandPewterReturns]

On 6/15/2022 at 4:13 PM, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm Still probably the biggest believer in Trask just like i was when we made the pick. I still think hes just as good as Mac Jones, just didn't get the opportunity . Everyone will scoff at that but I'm just basing that off the college tape.

JTS I was wrong about, he's good. But even with how good he's hasn't been consistent at all, only flashed 

Hainsey should hv been in the running to take the LG spot but with us drafting Goedeke that's a bit of a tell, that Hainsey ain't it. He could still be a rotational backup  

Darden , who got a ton of hype , has been a tragedy as a returner and not shown anything as a wr.

So that class isn't looking good.  But I still trust Licht. He's earned it.

Lol at no point did Trask look as competent as Mac Jones did. He had that deer in the headlights look all preseason. 

Maybe he develops into something but right now - the positive statements from coaches are just coach speak and being professional in front of the media. He's got ways to go to even earn a back up job in the NFL. 

Hainsley looks like his upside may just be a rotational back up. If Jensen left - would the bucs have been confident in him starting at Center? not sure how he fits long term as a starter but does not look promising since they Traded up for Goedeke. 

Darden spent his rookie year as almost the second coming of Dexter Jackson last year - just not drafted as high. His speed is a potential weapon but he needs to pull it together. There were expectations for him to atleast contribute as a returner and he was absolutely terrible there too. 

I agree with you on Licht. He's definitely has had a good career as a talent evaluator in the draft. Honestly, 2016 was his worst draft to date where it was full of busts at every pick. 2014 atleast got us a HOF and 2017 picked us up one of the better receivers in the 3rd round despite not hitting on the other picks outside of those players. He's built a consistent top OL here in Tampa and hitting big on Vita Vea when no one liked the pick at the time. I still say Rojo was a hit that Arians didn't like. Dude ran like a beast. I think he pulled a huge steal in Tyron last year. That man is an absolute freak who i think will put it together this year (if he stays healthy). 

But I will have to ask: what the heck did he see in MJ Stewart over Donte Jackson? LOL. Couldve had Donte Jackson and Carlton Davis in 2018 rd 2 that year. 

[kgarrett12486]

12 hours ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

Lol at no point did Trask look as competent as Mac Jones did. He had that deer in the headlights look all preseason. 

That's not at all what he said. If you read his post he said he thinks Trask is every bit as good as Jones. He didn't say as good as he was in 2021-2022 season, he's saying skill-set wise. 

I think everyone knew Jones was about as day-1 starter ready of a QB prospect as there was last year vs. a guy like Trask who was always thought of as a developmental talent. 

Doesn't mean 3-5 years down the road Jones will still be the better player. 

[eggybucsfan31]

Well, we're going to need to find a TE now. Brate/Otton is not going to be good enough.