What 3 players on the team now, have a lot to prove to you this year?

[DCNative]

8 hours ago, offbyone said:

I have been firmly arguing to resign Payne this offseason.  I think not signing him is a big mistake especially if we haven't traded himyet.  I think Payne has been consistently good and also shown great flashes.

Sweat on the other hand has shown great flashes no doubt, but he has not been consistently good.  At this point he is an unreliable midling player who has all the tools, but can't seem to put it together consistently.  The bottom line is with Sweat's body of work thus far, would you pay Sweat nearly 20M/year?  I wouldn't.  

Would you pay Chase Young 20m/year? 

[Thaiphoon]

2 hours ago, DCNative said:

5 sacks in and 3 forced fumbles in 10 games, I'm satisfied. You may not be. 

You're looking at the boxscore and not how he actually played. I can point out Brian Orakpo's #'s too which some people still like to do, but when you actually watched the games his #s were inflated by a few games or were when we were already out of playoff contention. Back to Sweat. Players aren't just judged by the boxscore. Yes, it's PART of the consideration as to whether a player had a good year or not, but it's not the only criteria by which a player is judged. I'm confident in what I said about how Sweat played. He played undisciplined ball along with Chase. They both bragged about setting the sack record and BOTH of them were glory hunting for most of the season. Montez was out of position quite a bit...as was Chase. And the result was QBs with all day to throw. And when you have a secondary not playing well and LBs that can't cover, you need the pass rush to be consistently good. It wasn't. And Montez was part of the problem.

Quote

Let's see Chase Young get those type of numbers consistently.

Yes...let's.

Quote

This is just pure hate to get attention off of Chase Young.

Huh? Who is doing that??

Quote

Chase Young has one little move so yea I'll just agree to disagree.

He certainly needs to build up his repertoire of moves, I agree with you there. 

Quote

Sweat has nothing to prove to me.

Cool. So I'll chalk you up as someone who isn't worried about if he will play well this year. Good to know.

Quote

I just hope he continues to progress as he has. 

I hope he continues to progress. And he stops playing undisciplined ball. I think if he does that, then if our other DE does the same, we will have a great pass rush as a unit this year.

[DCNative]

56 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

You're looking at the boxscore and not how he actually played. I can point out Brian Orakpo's #'s too which some people still like to do, but when you actually watched the games his #s were inflated by a few games or were when we were already out of playoff contention. Back to Sweat. Players aren't just judged by the boxscore. Yes, it's PART of the consideration as to whether a player had a good year or not, but it's not the only criteria by which a player is judged. I'm confident in what I said about how Sweat played. He played undisciplined ball along with Chase. They both bragged about setting the sack record and BOTH of them were glory hunting for most of the season. Montez was out of position quite a bit...as was Chase. And the result was QBs with all day to throw. And when you have a secondary not playing well and LBs that can't cover, you need the pass rush to be consistently good. It wasn't. And Montez was part of the problem.

Yes...let's.

Huh? Who is doing that??

He certainly needs to build up his repertoire of moves, I agree with you there. 

Cool. So I'll chalk you up as someone who isn't worried about if he will play well this year. Good to know.

I hope he continues to progress. And he stops playing undisciplined ball. I think if he does that, then if our other DE does the same, we will have a great pass rush as a unit this year.

Chalk it up as me saying as long as Sweat plays the way he has when healthy I have no problem resigning him and it would dumb not to resign him. He should be a key part of the future Dline. 

Nick Boss has 24.5 sacks Montez Sweat has 21. Guess we should just let him walk away huh? 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by DCNative

[offbyone]

2 hours ago, DCNative said:

Would you pay Chase Young 20m/year? 

Heck no.  But Montez Sweat has started a bit over half the number of games as Young.  Montez Sweat should be way closer to a finished product.  Young had one good season out of 2.  Sweat had 1 good season out of 3.

4 minutes ago, DCNative said:

Chalk it up as me saying as long as Sweat plays the way he has when healthy

So you were also on the pay Brandon Scherff 18M/year bandwagon with the whole mantra "when he is healthy"... 

[turtle28]

On 5/20/2022 at 11:38 PM, Thaiphoon said:

You're looking at the boxscore and not how he actually played. I can point out Brian Orakpo's #'s too which some people still like to do, but when you actually watched the games his #s were inflated by a few games or were when we were already out of playoff contention. Back to Sweat. Players aren't just judged by the boxscore. Yes, it's PART of the consideration as to whether a player had a good year or not, but it's not the only criteria by which a player is judged. I'm confident in what I said about how Sweat played. He played undisciplined ball along with Chase. They both bragged about setting the sack record and BOTH of them were glory hunting for most of the season. Montez was out of position quite a bit...as was Chase. And the result was QBs with all day to throw. And when you have a secondary not playing well and LBs that can't cover, you need the pass rush to be consistently good. It wasn't. And Montez was part of the problem.

Yes...let's.

Huh? Who is doing that??

He certainly needs to build up his repertoire of moves, I agree with you there. 

Cool. So I'll chalk you up as someone who isn't worried about if he will play well this year. Good to know.

I hope he continues to progress. And he stops playing undisciplined ball. I think if he does that, then if our other DE does the same, we will have a great pass rush as a unit this year.

How can you watch this and say Chase didn’t have some kind of impact last year?

I would argue that folks like you are box score watching constantly bringing up his 1.5 sacks, ignoring that he led the team in pressures in the games he played, almost had an int for a TD vs Green Bay on a pass deflection, had a forced fumble vs Denver, had a QB hit vs Kansas City which forced the awful falling down pass from Mahomes which McCain intercepted. 
 

He had 2 sacks taken away on bogus roughing the passers vs the Giants & Falcons & he also was great vs the run in the 8.5 games he played.

What’s crazy is I see last year as Chase & Sweat’s floors. Hard to imagine both of them playing that inconsistent again.

Edited May 22, 2022 by turtle28

[turtle28]

8 hours ago, DCNative said:

Chalk it up as me saying as long as Sweat plays the way he has when healthy I have no problem resigning him and it would dumb not to resign him. He should be a key part of the future Dline. 

Nick Boss has 24.5 sacks Montez Sweat has 21. Guess we should just let him walk away huh? 

 

I think they’re both keepers. Last year was Chase & Sweat’s floors imo.

[Thaiphoon]

20 hours ago, DCNative said:

Chalk it up as me saying as long as Sweat plays the way he has when healthy I have no problem resigning him and it would dumb not to resign him. He should be a key part of the future Dline. 

Nick Boss has 24.5 sacks Montez Sweat has 21. Guess we should just let him walk away huh? 

 

Yup. I hear you.

For me, if he plays like last year, I would not be giving him a $20m AAV contract. He has the tools to play well. And I love it when he plays because I think he can be a true impact player when he plays well. He just has to revert to 2020 form and be more disciplined. But if he gives me another year like last year, I'm not backing up the Brinks truck for him. I'll offer him a good contract, but I can't do that for a DE that freelances too much. 

[Thaiphoon]

12 hours ago, turtle28 said:

How can you watch this and say Chase didn’t have some kind of impact last year?

I would argue that folks like you are box score watching constantly bringing up his 1.5 sacks, ignoring that he led the team in pressures, almost had an int for a TD vs Green Bay on a pass deflection, had a forced fumble vs Denver, had a QB hit vs Kansas City which forced the awful falling down pass from Mahomes which McCain intercepted. 
 

He had 2 sacks taken away on bogus roughing the passers vs the Giants & Falcons & he also was great vs the run in the 8.5 games he played.

What’s crazy is I see last year as Chase & Sweat’s floors. Hard to imagine both of them playing that inconsistent again.

At what point did I mention his sacks? Show me. I didn't mention them once. Yes, he did have two sacks taken away.

But I'll give you the Buffalo game which was a microcosm of his play last year.

Watch the video. This was most of the games Chase played last year. So yes, while he had quite a few plays because of his ability, he was also costing us quite a bit with his undisciplined play. Same holds true for Sweat.

This is pretty damning ^^^

But yes, I agree with you that last year was their floors. I just don't want to see it out of either one of them again.

[DCNative]

21 hours ago, offbyone said:

Heck no.  But Montez Sweat has started a bit over half the number of games as Young.  Montez Sweat should be way closer to a finished product.  Young had one good season out of 2.  Sweat had 1 good season out of 3.

So you were also on the pay Brandon Scherff 18M/year bandwagon with the whole mantra "when he is healthy"... 

Schreff didn't want to be here. They offered him a contract. He didn't accept. He should've been traded. No I wouldn't pay him due to his consistent injury history. 

Montez Sweat was never suppose to be a Generational Talent. As said he has done enough for Me to resign him. He has nothing to prove to me. All he has to due is stay healthy and continue to produce as he has. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by DCNative

[DCNative]

1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said:

Yup. I hear you.

For me, if he plays like last year, I would not be giving him a $20m AAV contract. He has the tools to play well. And I love it when he plays because I think he can be a true impact player when he plays well. He just has to revert to 2020 form and be more disciplined. But if he gives me another year like last year, I'm not backing up the Brinks truck for him. I'll offer him a good contract, but I can't do that for a DE that freelances too much. 

That's your opinion. He missed 7 games and still produce. I guess we can just agree to disagree. 

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, DCNative said:

That's your opinion. He missed 7 games and still produce. I guess we can just agree to disagree. 

Correct. That's what we do here. Give our opinions.

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, DCNative said:

Schreff didn't want to be here. They offered him a contract. He didn't accept. He should've been traded. No I wouldn't pay him due to his consistent injury history. 

Montez Sweat was never suppose to be a Generational Talent. As said he has done enough for Me to resign him. He has nothing to prove to me. All he has to due is stay healthy and continue to produce as he has. 

Resign? Yes. Give him top DE money? No.

[DCNative]

28 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Correct. That's what we do here. Give our opinions.

Yet his numbers aren't a opinion. Stick to what players are paid to do. Sweat is paid to pressure, disrupt, and sack the QB. He's only once again factually 3.5 sacks away from Joey Bosa. A player I definitely don't see the Niner's just letting walk. Brain Burns a guy drafted in Sweat draft class, only leads Sweat by 4.5 sacks. Again the numbers don't lie. That's what will be talked about in those contract negotiations. 

 

 

[DCNative]

36 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Resign? Yes. Give him top DE money? No.

What did the Buccaneers do with their Free Agents after winning the Super Bowl, resigned them all for a repeat. If this front 4 can play more like they did in 2020 oppose to last season you resign All Of Them. That's what Washington built thier defense off. Again thinking they did get back to that level of play, you keep that unit together. While on offense Scary Terry is your priority.

[turtle28]

7 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

At what point did I mention his sacks? Show me. I didn't mention them once. Yes, he did have two sacks taken away.

But I'll give you the Buffalo game which was a microcosm of his play last year.

Watch the video. This was most of the games Chase played last year. So yes, while he had quite a few plays because of his ability, he was also costing us quite a bit with his undisciplined play. Same holds true for Sweat.

This is pretty damning ^^^

But yes, I agree with you that last year was their floors. I just don't want to see it out of either one of them again.

I’ve heard/watched Marcus Spears’s opinion/cut up of just bad plays from the DL during a few games. I can and did post plays from that same game from just Chase alone where he had an impact & almost had 2 sacks of Josh Allen. 
 

The 2nd half of that segment in Mina’s presentation points to a larger problem the first 6 weeks of the season with our defense than our DEs having a few bad rushes a game where they went wide, we’re blocked behind the QB & gave up rush lanes to a very athletic QB. 

Through the Bills game & it continued for a few weeks after we were the worst team in the league with 5 DBs or more on the field. Our back 7 sucked, they couldn’t cover which meant our pass rushers didn’t usually have time to get home despite how often they got pressure. The QB could hit his back foot on a 3 or 5 step drip and have his pick of open receivers. Our back 7 had awful communication, didn’t match well to receivers in their zone and blew multiple coverages the first few months of the season which cost us the Saints game & almost cost us the Falcons & Giants games. In the Giants game if you remember Slaton dropped a 40-50 yard TD pass in his hands after Collins & WJ3’s miscommunication on a deep coverage.