Bigbear72 Posted May 9, 2022 Author Share Posted May 9, 2022 1 minute ago, beardown3231 said: I didn't say everything should be poured into the offense. But if Fields sucks, the rest of the team won't be a true contender But they aren't anyway. Not this season. And I replied that way because a majority of the post that I have seen from you is focused on Fields and his development and not much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: The two things aren't linked...yes things should get better in terms of wins early but in terms of becoming a perennial playoff contender we have to give him time because what he walked into was bad. What do you mean get better in terms of wins? We were already a perennial 8-8 team and could have maintained that indefinitely. 9-10 wins is a wild card playoff team. He gets a year to be worse and rebuild. He doesn't get 3 years to get to 10 wins with a QB already in place. They are linked. If he has a bad 2022 and is sitting on a mountain of cap space and doesn't make any impact FA signings he will be judged for it and harshly. Not saying be stupid and give a ton of cash to journeyman talent or trade high draft picks, but bring in some impact starters. You can't ONLY build through draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 Just now, dll2000 said: What do you mean get better in terms of wins? We were already a perennial 8-8 team and could have maintained that indefinitely. 9-10 wins is a wild card playoff team. He gets a year to be worse and rebuild. He doesn't get 3 years to get to 10 wins with a QB already in place. They are linked. If he has a bad 2022 and is sitting on a mountain of cap space and doesn't make any impact FA signings he will be judged for it and harshly. Not saying be stupid and give a ton of cash to journeyman talent or trade high draft picks, but bring in some impact starters. You can't ONLY build through draft. GB would like a word... You 100% can build through the draft as long as you can draft impact starters early & develop later round picks into starters over a couple of seasons...that is why this staff has been hired because they are teachers first and foremost... You plan seems to be closer to Pace's rather than Poles'...we have to build the foundation of this team in the right way...having a 2018 season where we have a good season and it is a complete false dawn is not the way to go...we want to be KC...that takes a bit of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Madmike90 said: GB would like a word... You 100% can build through the draft as long as you can draft impact starters early & develop later round picks into starters over a couple of seasons...that is why this staff has been hired because they are teachers first and foremost... You plan seems to be closer to Pace's rather than Poles'...we have to build the foundation of this team in the right way...having a 2018 season where we have a good season and it is a complete false dawn is not the way to go...we want to be KC...that takes a bit of time. If anything, GB is an example of why you can't only build thru the draft. GB has one of the best QBs of all time and only 1 SB to show because of poor defenses. They have poor defenses because they kept relying only on the draft and kept missing. Thompson was allergic to FA. Had they given Rodgers more help in FA then the are probably get 2-3 more trophies by now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said: If anything, GB is an example of why you can't only build thru the draft. GB has one of the best QBs of all time and only 1 SB to show because of poor defenses. They have poor defenses because they kept relying only on the draft and kept missing. Thompson was allergic to FA. Had they given Rodgers more help in FA then the are probably get 2-3 more trophies by now. No GB are an example of why you should guarantee money past the first year of a contract extension... I am not saying we shouldn't sign FAs...I am however saying it is possible for your core to be drafted...the best teams usually do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 It's 2022. Not 2002. Slow builds don't work anymore. GMs and coaches are put on too short of leashes for it ever bee sustainable in the modern era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 36 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said: But they aren't anyway. Not this season. And I replied that way because a majority of the post that I have seen from you is focused on Fields and his development and not much more. Is there someone else that I should care more about on the roster? Should I hope Brisker is better than Fields? What about Velus Jones? If this team is going to be a contender from 2023-2030, it's Fields' development that matters most. End of story. That's why my posts are mostly about Fields: because he's the most important player on the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbear72 Posted May 9, 2022 Author Share Posted May 9, 2022 10 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: Is there someone else that I should care more about on the roster? Should I hope Brisker is better than Fields? What about Velus Jones? If this team is going to be a contender from 2023-2030, it's Fields' development that matters most. End of story. That's why my posts are mostly about Fields: because he's the most important player on the team If your hope that the team is going to be better then I would say that you should care about more than him. Unless of course you would rather us be the what the Detroit Lions were the previous decade. If that is want you want, then no, don't care about anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 How I would measure success for the FO and coaching staff: Assign each player a Future Value (FV) distribution based on age, production, position, contract status, draft status, etc. This is basically an estimate of how valuable a player will be in 2022, 2023, etc. You can re-calculate a player's FV distribution after each season, using last season's stats in your value model. Each draft pick is assigned a FV based on historical averages for picks in that round. Each ~1M of cap space is assigned a FV based on contracts signed in the last 5 years. FO's Goal - Increase the FV of all assets by end of season. Make sure you're accumulating Future Value. Ideally you pick a year and build your team to peak during that year. This could mean trading veterans like Jackson and Quinn, hoarding draft picks, making smart waiver claims, and finding young UFAs with potential. Staff's Goal - Increase the player FV for the top 53 by end of season. This means developing guys beyond expectations, prioritizing young players, and using the 53 man roster to find unheralded talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 58 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: GB would like a word... You 100% can build through the draft as long as you can draft impact starters early & develop later round picks into starters over a couple of seasons...that is why this staff has been hired because they are teachers first and foremost... You plan seems to be closer to Pace's rather than Poles'...we have to build the foundation of this team in the right way...having a 2018 season where we have a good season and it is a complete false dawn is not the way to go...we want to be KC...that takes a bit of time. Horse poppy. They were running in place until they signed Za’Darius Smith, Preston Smith, Adrian Amos, and Billy Turner in 2019 to large deals. A stark departure from their draft only stance. They win SB in 2020 but for Bakhtiari getting hurt. They were best team in league at full strength that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Horse poppy. They were running in place until they signed Za’Darius Smith, Preston Smith, Adrian Amos, and Billy Turner in 2019 to large deals. A stark departure from their draft only stance. They win SB in 2020 but for Bakhtiari getting hurt. They were best team in league at full strength that year. And how did those deals for Smith, Preston & Turner turn out?...GB have build a core through the draft...look at last years roster...on offence they had Mercedes Lewis & Billy Turner as the only two players they didn't draft who played any meaningful snaps...2 guys out of 25...for comparison we had 12 guys... The best teams build their cores through the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Madmike90 said: And how did those deals for Smith, Preston & Turner turn out?...GB have build a core through the draft...look at last years roster...on offence they had Mercedes Lewis & Billy Turner as the only two players they didn't draft who played any meaningful snaps...2 guys out of 25...for comparison we had 12 guys... The best teams build their cores through the draft. It worked out great. What are you talking about? GB but for some bad breaks may have a couple of SBs. FAs aren't forever. And I didn't say don't do it as core. I am saying use FA wisely to add extra umph and plug holes. GB 2017 7-9 2018 6-9-1 2019* Add Smiths, Amos and Turner 13-3 2020 13-3 and best team in league IMO. 2021 13-4 We were celebrating a 12 win season a few years back btw and partying like it was 1999. They just went 13 wins for three straight years AFTER they added 4 plus players in FA to shore up holes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: The best teams build their cores through the draft. That's not always the case. There is no one set way to build a team. You can't rely too heavily on the draft and you can't rely too heavily on FA......you need balance. https://overthecap.com/premium/roster-development/ Notice at the top you have Ravens, Packers, Rams, Patriots. Then look at the bottom; KC, Bucs, Broncos, Steelers, Raiders. In the middle are Bengals. This is sorted by ratio. Edited May 9, 2022 by JAF-N72EX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said: That's not always the case. There is no one set way to build a team. You can't rely too heavily on the draft and you can't rely too heavily on FA......you need balance. https://overthecap.com/premium/roster-development/ Notice at the top you have Ravens, Packers, Rams, Patriots. Then look at the bottom; KC, Bucs, Broncos, Steelers, Raiders. In the middle are Bengals. This is sorted by ratio. Paywall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, dll2000 said: It worked out great. What are you talking about? GB but for some bad breaks may have a couple of SBs. FAs aren't forever. And I didn't say don't do it as core. I am saying use FA wisely to add extra umph and plug holes. GB 2017 7-9 2018 6-9-1 2019* Add Smiths, Amos and Turner 13-3 2020 13-3 and best team in league IMO. 2021 13-4 We were celebrating a 12 win season a few years back btw and partying like it was 1999. They just went 13 wins for three straight years AFTER they added 4 plus players in FA to shore up holes. Yep. they were bad deals but they did what they had to do to fill holes in an attempt to put them over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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