The Jay Gruden Thread

[lavar703]

I loved the hire when it was initially made. He was the guy I wanted to run this team and sometimes you just have to admit when you're wrong. And I was dead wrong about Jay. 

-He wastes timeouts like no coach I've ever seen. He just doesn't understand the need for them. It's baffling. He makes boneheaded challenges, which again results in wasted timeouts.

-He has ZERO situational awareness as a coach. How many times has this team been down multiple scores under his watch only to have them run the offense like it's a normal game? Do we just not have a hurry up offense? Does he not understand that the clock is important? Why is this so difficult for him?

-Stupid playcalling. This happens every game. It was highlighted today by the horrible run plays called back-to-back that essentially ended the game for us. Whether it's throwing deep passes on third and short or running Chris Thompson on fourth and short. He's just completely overmatched as a headcoach and playcaller.

-Guts. He has none. Whatever the sack is between his leg it certainly doesn't contain balls. Kicking field goals inside the 5. Punting on fourth and short. And his team is exactly like him. They feed off of his energy so they're wimps also. 

These are just a few bullet points of why I think it's time to move on. It appears we let the real talent walk out the door when McVay signed on to coach the Rams. His penchant to hire awful DC is not helping his case either. We can't run, we can't block for the run and for whatever reason we cannot score TD in the red zone. Each week I feel like he's simply outcoached by the opposition. I honestly feel like we have Norv Turner stalking the sidelines again. 

This can't go on any longer. Fire him after this season and just clean house on this staff. Maybe keep Tomsula but outside of that they can all go. It has to end. The team is always unprepared and he's running a country club. The whole thing is a joke. We look like a joke. 

[MKnight82]

The team plays hard for him and he’s turned a 4th round pick into a quality starting QB.  I’m willing to give him more time.

[Slateman]

36 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

The team plays hard for him and he’s turned a 4th round pick into a quality starting QB.  I’m willing to give him more time.

This. Also, we're second in the NFL in fewest penalties committed. We were 29th in his first season.

[Thaiphoon]

One thing to add to the fire under Jay. Which negatively affected my fantasy team (started Davis). 

We got down to the goal line. First and goal on like the 2 or 3 (I had been imbibing so don't quite remember exactly when but it was int he first half). We get set to run the play and the Vikings defense is on their heels. 

Jay calls a timeout right as we were snapping the ball. Then after the timeout, the Vikings get composed and Kirk rolls right and throws to Davis which is batted away.

If Jay just let's us run the darned play on 1st down, I bet we score right there.

[MKnight82]

I understand the playcalling frustration.  But that doesn’t mean we need to fire Gruden.  We just need a new playcaller, like we did before. 

I will point out that when we did try to run in critical situations we failed.  So maybe his pass happy playcalling in short yardage is actually the right call.

[Ghostnote]

1 hour ago, MKnight82 said:

I understand the playcalling frustration.  But that doesn’t mean we need to fire Gruden.  We just need a new playcaller, like we did before. 

I will point out that when we did try to run in critical situations we failed.  So maybe his pass happy playcalling in short yardage is actually the right call.

I agree and I thought that on the 3rd and 1 play late in the 4th, it should have been a pass. 

 

[lavar703]

2 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

The team plays hard for him and he’s turned a 4th round pick into a quality starting QB.  I’m willing to give him more time.

I disagree that the team plays hard for him. We're basically the same team we've been for three years now. We're a 7-9 to 9-7 ball club and simply cannot get beyond that.

Maybe I'm just annoyed with the outcome of this game but even when we win I feel like he gets outcoached. He seems to struggle with the easy stuff and his playcalling leaves a lot to be desired. I think the team can do better. 

[Doc Draper]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

I disagree that the team plays hard for him. We're basically the same team we've been for three years now. We're a 7-9 to 9-7 ball club and simply cannot get beyond that.

Maybe I'm just annoyed with the outcome of this game but even when we win I feel like he gets outcoached. He seems to struggle with the easy stuff and his playcalling leaves a lot to be desired. I think the team can do better. 

Hi Lavar, welcome to the Redskins recovery group. Thank you for sharing  Little recovery humor 

I understand and agree with you and I also understand why people don't want to change just yet. It all boils down to your statement in bold-I think the team can do better. 

It sucks having to go through another coach and the whole process again. Its like you have a girlfriend and you had such high hopes, maybe you even married her. Then you find out all these things that piss you off or talking to her is like talking to a piece of fruit and you may have made a huge mistake.  You try to work through it and try to adjust your expectations, try to be patient, compromise  etc.. but you either come to one of three conclusions- 1. You settle- meaning you accept less than you initially hoped for and wanted and eventually neither of you are happy; 2. You let it ride because you're fearful you can't do any better and rationalize it by saying everybody is just as unhappy as you are; or 3. You sack up and make the tough choice- the choice that at least gives you a chance.  

There are two types of people in this world (in my experience), Merry Go Round people and Roller Coaster people. The first kind of people usually choose options 1 and 2 and as Henry Thoreau wrote : "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation" because they fear change. The second kind of people Roller Coaster people usually choose number 3. These are the risk takers and as John Henry from Moneyball said: "I know you've taken it in the teeth out there, but the first guy through the wall- they always gets bloody, always...  I mean, anybody who's not building a team right and rebuilding it using your model, they're dinosaurs. They'll be sitting on their *** on the sofa in October, watching the Boston Red Sox win the World Series." 

I'd rather take my chances at winning it all even if we flame out than be satisfied with perpetual 8-8 every year. But I understand those that are ok with 8-8, hey its better than 4-12. 

 

[MKnight82]

13 hours ago, lavar703 said:

I disagree that the team plays hard for him. We're basically the same team we've been for three years now. We're a 7-9 to 9-7 ball club and simply cannot get beyond that.

Maybe I'm just annoyed with the outcome of this game but even when we win I feel like he gets outcoached. He seems to struggle with the easy stuff and his playcalling leaves a lot to be desired. I think the team can do better. 

Ok I'll bite.  Who do you think we can sign that'll be better?  Remember that they have to be willing to work for Dan Snyder.  

[SeanTaylorsaPIMP]

6 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Ok I'll bite.  Who do you think we can sign that'll be better?  Remember that they have to be willing to work for Dan Snyder.  

By far the most underrated quality about Jay Gruden. I'm way too lazy to go back and try and find it  but when we were searching for a new coach after Shanahan, Zimmer and Gruden were the 2 hot names. I think we all thought that Zimmer was the better coach but I argued that Gruden was the better fit.  It takes a special kind of coach to be able to handle Snyder. You can't be a push over lap dog like Jim Zorn and you can't be a "My way or the highway" personality like Shanahan and Schottenheimer. You have to be able to balance the pressures of ownership but still be able to run the ship your way. Gruden is this rare personality. 

Continuity is something that has been foreign in this organization for quite some time. If you want to start all over, you need to make sure you have the right people in place. What makes you think you can find a better fit for this organization than Gruden and Cousins? Who exactly is out there? Sure, maybe you can find a coach that is better at the X's and O's but there are layers to this job that you have to take into consideration and the hardest and thickest layer is that of Ownership. I don't know who out there can handle all phases better than Gruden. What we need to do is keep Gruden and just hope that he continues to grow and develop as our Head Coach. I do think that he is growing and has improved over the years. Still a lot of work to do but starting over would be a big mistake in my opinion.  

[MKnight82]

3 minutes ago, SeanTayorsaPIMP said:

By far the most underrated quality about Jay Gruden. I'm way too lazy to go back and try and find it  but when we were searching for a new coach after Shanahan, Zimmer and Gruden were the 2 hot names. I think we all thought that Zimmer was the better coach but I argued that Gruden was the better fit.  It takes a special kind of coach to be able to handle Snyder. You can't be a push over lap dog like Jim Zorn and you can't be a "My way or the highway" personality like Shanahan and Schottenheimer. You have to be able to balance the pressures of ownership but still be able to run the ship your way. Gruden is this rare personality. 

Continuity is something that has been foreign in this organization for quite some time. If you want to start all over, you need to make sure you have the right people in place. What makes you think you can find a better fit for this organization than Gruden and Cousins? Who exactly is out there? Sure, maybe you can find a coach that is better at the X's and O's but there are layers to this job that you have to take into consideration and the hardest and thickest layer is that of Ownership. I don't know who out there can handle all phases better than Gruden. What we need to do is keep Gruden and just hope that he continues to grow and develop as our Head Coach. I do think that he is growing and has improved over the years. Still a lot of work to do but starting over would be a big mistake in my opinion.  

This is probably why Dallas is stuck with Jason Garrett too.  He's a passable coach that isn't that impressive IMO, but he's willing to work with Jerry Jones.  

[SeanTaylorsaPIMP]

2 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

This is probably why Dallas is stuck with Jason Garrett too.  He's a passable coach that isn't that impressive IMO, but he's willing to work with Jerry Jones.  

Exactly, it all goes back to Ownership and how much it has handicapped us moving forward. Daniel Snyder is a massive roadblock. You can get through it but makes it a million times harder.   

[lavar703]

56 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Ok I'll bite.  Who do you think we can sign that'll be better?  Remember that they have to be willing to work for Dan Snyder.  

Honestly, I don't know? But I do believe this is where we're stuck with Jay Gruden. We will hover around 7-9 to 9-7 and not do much more than that with him running the show. This is year four and there's basically no signs of improvement. I'd actually say the offense has regressed substantially so I don't see how we can go up from here when we seem to be headed in the opposite direction going into year five of this regime? Maybe I'm wrong and we need to just keep on driving down this road but I think we've hit our peak with Jay.

[SeanTaylorsaPIMP]

8 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Honestly, I don't know? But I do believe this is where we're stuck with Jay Gruden. We will hover around 7-9 to 9-7 and not do much more than that with him running the show. This is year four and there's basically no signs of improvement. I'd actually say the offense has regressed substantially so I don't see how we can go up from here when we seem to be headed in the opposite direction going into year five of this regime? Maybe I'm wrong and we need to just keep on driving down this road but I think we've hit our peak with Jay.

I mean, maybe you're right and 9-7 is the best we can do with Gruden. Still, I want to give him 1 more year here and see if patience is a virtue and he finally gets over the hump. I know every year there are injuries and everyone plays a tough schedule in the NFL but this has been especially brutal for us this year. I remember saying to myself earlier this season, we could improve our team, take a step forward and still have a worse record than last season. I don't think Gruden has done anything drastic this season that merits getting fired just yet. If the team ends the season looking uncompetitive and unfocused then I'd be more inclined to understand it. But for the time being, I'm still holding off.

[MKnight82]

24 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Honestly, I don't know? But I do believe this is where we're stuck with Jay Gruden. We will hover around 7-9 to 9-7 and not do much more than that with him running the show. This is year four and there's basically no signs of improvement. I'd actually say the offense has regressed substantially so I don't see how we can go up from here when we seem to be headed in the opposite direction going into year five of this regime? Maybe I'm wrong and we need to just keep on driving down this road but I think we've hit our peak with Jay.

Yes he's in Year 4, but you can't really count 2014 because he was forced to play Griffin at QB.  He also took over at the start of a total rebuild. In Year 2 he won the division.  Last year he led the team to its only back to back winning seasons in the Dan Snyder era.  

The offense has regressed because we let two 1,000 yard WRs leave without even making them offers.  We also didn't acquire a starting RB.  

Is Gruden perfect?  No.  Is he the biggest problem with this organization and the reason we aren't winning games?  No.