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Who are the biggest chokers in NFL history?


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10 hours ago, SkippyX said:

3 pages without McNabb? McNabb just wet the bed so many times

Unfortunately this. If the defense didn't ball out, we lost. Donovan has 9 playoff wins. Here's what the opposing teams scored in each of those games.

3
9
19
6
17
14
10
14
11

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1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

Clutch sure (after being a reason they were behind in the first place), but I wouldn’t exactly say Peyton balled out in that game. Or in any of those postseason games in 2006. 

I'd expect nothing less considering your fandom. :) 

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42 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Now now, let's hear him out

It was everything that I could do not to make a completely tasteless joke/insinuation about Ben and choking to begin with. Now that the Browns acquired Watson I can't bring myself to bask in the moral highground. 

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On 5/16/2022 at 7:19 AM, MWil23 said:

All of the people who have won at least one Super Bowl being listed amuses me. Here’s mine:

Coaches: 

Kyle Shanahan, Marty Schottenheimer

Teams:

The Cincinnati Bengals, Minnesota Vikings, Buffalo Bills, Cleveland Browns, Atlanta Falcons, San Diego Chargers, and Houston Oilers/Texans all have lost multiple games while leading in gut wrenching fashion historically all without Super Bowl titles

Players:

Matt Ryan, Warren Moon, Gary Anderson, Phillip Rivers, Donovan McNabb

Posted again to prove I mentioned McNabb because I'm petty like that.

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37 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Carson Palmer in the playoffs?

He was a solid QB and had a couple of really good teams 

1-2 playoff record as a starter 

56%, 730 yards, 5 TDs, 11 INTs, 9 sacks, 2 sub 60 QBRs. 

It's a small sample size, but boy is it pretty atrocious. 

 

He was not good in those last 3 games. This is a fair label.

That first game was nuts. He drops back and launches a perfect pass to a streaking Chris Henry that goes catch and run for 66 yards.

KvO KO's Palmer in the pocket (ACL injury) and Henry gets a leg injury 6 play later.

Joy to pain in a flash.

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42 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I'd expect nothing less considering your fandom. :) 

I suppose miserable performances like that constitute “balling out”…considering your fandom.

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2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

I suppose miserable performances like that constitute “balling out”…considering your fandom.

350 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT with a come from behind victory to go to the Super Bowl? Yeah that's pretty obvious by my standards. Nice zinger though. I'm probably the most self deprecating Browns fan here.

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Just now, MWil23 said:

350 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT with a come from behind victory to go to the Super Bowl? Yeah that's pretty obvious by my standards. Nice zinger though. I'm probably the most self deprecating Browns fan here.

Why don’t you post his total stats for that postseason run? Would it ruin your argument?

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1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said:

Why don’t you post his total stats for that postseason run? Would it ruin your argument?

Do you not understand what "at some point" means?

On 5/16/2022 at 12:42 PM, MWil23 said:

However, they aren't CHOKERS since they all at some point showed up, balled out, and won a ring.

32 2nd half points and executing the clinching game winning drive down 3 points with under 4 minutes left and scores on 5 of 7 2nd half drives while winning the 2nd half 32-13 are crunch time success numbers.

And whether you think he deserved it or not, winning the Super Bowl MVP, which he did the very next game, is on his resume.

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46 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Do you not understand what "at some point" means?

32 2nd half points and executing the clinching game winning drive down 3 points with under 4 minutes left and scores on 5 of 7 2nd half drives while winning the 2nd half 32-13 are crunch time success numbers.

Are you implying that over the course of 16 years, Peyton can’t be considered a choker because of a very, very good half of football in a non-SB matchup? His playoff performances have consistently been underwhelming, and well below what he does to even good teams in the regular season. 

46 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

And whether you think he deserved it or not, winning the Super Bowl MVP, which he did the very next game, is on his resume.

Sure, it’s on his resume. Are you going to say he balled in that 250-1-1 performance too? He was alright. He wasn’t anything special, certainly not the Peyton we see in September-December.

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53 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Are you implying that over the course of 16 years, Peyton can’t be considered a choker because of a very, very good half of football in a non-SB matchup? His playoff performances have consistently been underwhelming, and well below what he does to even good teams in the regular season. 
 

Per my OP/thesis, you can’t be a choker if you have won a ring, let alone multiple rings. 

53 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Sure, it’s on his resume. Are you going to say he balled in that 250-1-1 performance too? He was alright. He wasn’t anything special, certainly not the Peyton we see in September-December.

No doubt. I’d also say playing an awesome defense in a monsoon explains the slightly above pedestrian numbers. 250-1-1 against the Bears defense that year is definitely solid. Historical context matters.

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7 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Per my OP/thesis, you can’t be a choker if you have won a ring, let alone multiple rings. 

That doesn’t seem silly to you? 

So it doesn’t matter how bad a QB plays, if their defense carries them (ala zombie Peyton), then they can’t be considered a choker? That doesn’t make sense to me. It makes sense for a guy like Stafford, who just played big in multiple big moments throughout this postseason run. It doesn’t make sense for a guy that limited the team as much as he helped them.

7 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

No doubt. I’d also say playing an awesome defense in a monsoon explains the slightly above pedestrian numbers. 250-1-1 against the Bears defense that year is definitely solid. Historical context matters.

“Slightly above pedestrian”, “solid”. They’re not words/phrases that describe regular season Peyton Manning. Nor do they really constitute “balling” to me.

Peyton’s consistently played down in the postseason, I don’t really view that as debatable for his career as a whole. Even in the years he won it all, it was largely off the back of the defenses he played with (which is the case for most QBs, in fairness), not off of him elevating his game in the way that we’ve seen some other QBs do it. But in either of those postseason runs, outside of that second half vs NE, I don’t think I watched any of those and thought that there aren’t 12-18 other QBs that couldn’t be doing this on this team.

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Peyton's career playoff rating is 87. Brady's is 90. Peyton has a winning record against Brady in the playoffs. Peyton has a winning playoff record. Peyton has two Super Bowl rings.

He has choked at times, but so has Brady if you want to get granular. Mark Sanchez made them both one and done in the playoffs in 2010/2011.

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On 5/16/2022 at 9:29 AM, Spartacus said:

Aaron Rodgers is quickly entering this chat but IMO on more then a few of those playoff runs they were clearly the less talented team being dragged to the playoffs by Aaron Rodgers usually either due to injury or just being terrible on defense. 

Ehhh in 2011, 2014, and the last two seasons he was considered to have the best team in the NFC. 2014 was the only close one which you could call a toss up and his team basically gave him every opportunity to close that baby out. But those 4 years they were who most thought would be in the Super Bowl

 

On 5/16/2022 at 12:07 PM, DutchFalcon said:

I think that is looking a bit to much at the results and not at the process. Big Ben and Tomlin might have been clutch almost two decades ago but those times have clearly passed and I don't think they should get a pass for that. Following your logic the 1990 - 1993 Bills wouldn't have been chokers if they only had won that first SB.

Yeah but when were thr Steelers ever favored to win when they didn’t? Since 2010 they were 

1. injured to hell against the Broncos. Embarrassing but they weren’t doing anything that yea. 
 

2. Lost to a division rival who they had an extremely tight division race with in 2014. 
 

3. in 2015 lost to the eventual SB champions on the road with one of the greatest defenses ever. 
 

4. Lost to a much better Patriots team on the road who also went on to win the SB that year

 

5. Lost to the Jaguars in a close game in a year they were extremely good 

 

6. lost to the Browns in a year the Browns were solid and weren’t far behind them. 
 

7. lost to the Chiefs who were the best team in the league at that point, 

 

In most of those years the conventional result happened. Only 2014 vs the Ravens, 2017 vs the Jags and 2020 vs the Browns were iffy. And all 3 of those years they were kinda a middle of the pack playoff team anyways and not one of the major contenders and if they didn’t lose close games to comparable teams then, they would have lost later once they ran into the Chiefs or Patriots. 

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17 minutes ago, FrantikRam said:

Peyton's career playoff rating is 87. Brady's is 90. Peyton has a winning record against Brady in the playoffs. Peyton has a winning playoff record. Peyton has two Super Bowl rings.

He has choked at times, but so has Brady if you want to get granular. Mark Sanchez made them both one and done in the playoffs in 2010/2011.

One guy has 7 rings and went to 11 SB’s. One guy has 2 where he played like garbage both times and also had one two other appearances where in one he led the most productive offense ever to 8 points and another where he threw the game ending pick six on a drive they would have tied the game late in the 4ty quarter. 
 

Nobody is going to have a perfect record where they win every year. But when one guy consistently wins games they are favored to and pulls out games they aren’t, and another consistently has lost games they were favored in…. those create patterns. 

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