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Who are the biggest chokers in NFL history?


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2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Why don’t you post his total stats for that postseason run? Would it ruin your argument?

Because he doesn’t want to. 
 

Peyton had 3 TD’s to 7 INT’s that entire playoff run. Had a 70.5 passer rating which even in 2006 was garbage across 4 games. He also had games where his special teams scored every single point. And the comeback game was also a home game against a team that he shouldn’t have even been in that position against. 
 

To give a comparison. No QB since 2000  has had a worse playoff TD:INT split and passer rating and went on to win the SB. Even Trent Dilfer game managing still was less of a weight on his team 

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On 5/15/2022 at 10:59 PM, skywindO2 said:

Imagine if they actually attempted that kick from that far away 

Then they’d be like another nfc north team that tried a ridiculous field goal 

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Odd not to see all of the “wins aren’t a QB stat” gang descending on some of these arguments here. 

After all, Tom Brady’s playoff stat production is barely better than Peyton Manning’s — probably equivalent when you adjust for Brady playing far more games in the recent inflated passing era — and it’s worse than Aaron Rodgers’s. And yet he’s the uncontested playoff GOAT, while they’re being trashed as the biggest chokers in NFL history. Why? Because his team won more playoff games than their teams did.

Or do wins only become a QB stat in the playoffs?

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15 hours ago, FrantikRam said:

Peyton's career playoff rating is 87. Brady's is 90. Peyton has a winning record against Brady in the playoffs. Peyton has a winning playoff record. Peyton has two Super Bowl rings.

He has choked at times, but so has Brady if you want to get granular. Mark Sanchez made them both one and done in the playoffs in 2010/2011.

dead poets society GIF

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, e16bball said:

Odd not to see all of the “wins aren’t a QB stat” gang descending on some of these arguments here. 

After all, Tom Brady’s playoff stat production is barely better than Peyton Manning’s — probably equivalent when you adjust for Brady playing far more games in the recent inflated passing era — and it’s worse than Aaron Rodgers’s. And yet he’s the uncontested playoff GOAT, while they’re being trashed as the biggest chokers in NFL history. Why? Because his team won more playoff games than their teams did.

Or do wins only become a QB stat in the playoffs?

Must be (in a lot of people's eyes). That started with Joe Montana (although nobody brings up the fact that Bradshaw has just as many rings, and Starr has more, even though three of his came before the Almighty Super Bowl and don't count [lol]).

That's also why Elway has gotten trashed over the years for losing three (especially on this site) despite being the whole team (don't say he had good defenses. Good defenses don't give up 39, 42, and 55 points in a Super Bowl) and playing in an antiquated offensive scheme the first ten years of his career with minimal talent around him and a stubborn head coach who should have been fired after the 1990 5-11 SB hangover season.

Edited by 7DnBrnc53
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10 hours ago, e16bball said:

Odd not to see all of the “wins aren’t a QB stat” gang descending on some of these arguments here. 

After all, Tom Brady’s playoff stat production is barely better than Peyton Manning’s — probably equivalent when you adjust for Brady playing far more games in the recent inflated passing era — and it’s worse than Aaron Rodgers’s. And yet he’s the uncontested playoff GOAT, while they’re being trashed as the biggest chokers in NFL history. Why? Because his team won more playoff games than their teams did.

Or do wins only become a QB stat in the playoffs?

Some of us actually watch the games and know how players performed in key moments and don’t just read a stat line. 
 

This is kinda funny though considering one of the first people to defend Peyton brought up his playoff head to record vs Brady. It’s funny how wins don’t matter until they help an argument. 
 

 

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On 5/17/2022 at 12:54 AM, SkippyX said:

3 pages without McNabb? McNabb just wet the bed so many times.

 

Look at his incredible play of Thanksgiving 2008 (after his Baltimore benching) and then Prime Time and McSoup attacking Philly fans in the post game because of how awesome #5 was. They got a rematch in the NFCCG and he just plain sucked.

 

NFCCG 1 - He fumbles in his own red zone on drive 1 for a free 7 to St Louis. (they lost by 5)

NFCCG 2 - Tampa. The first drive was based on a long Mitchell kick return and McNabb was invisible all day. He had 1 long run followed by RONDE!

NFCCG 3 - He eventually got hurt on a cheap shot but he was terrible when playing.

NFCCG 4 - The whole team overwhelmed Atlanta, nice win all around. He played well.

SB - Interception to the right side of the end zone - do over on a D penalty - mirror image interception. (I can't find another series like this, anywhere)

The Bruschi pick was one of the worst throws in NFL history. He was trying to hit a crossing RB and put it 4 yards over his head and in front of him.

Bruschi was like 6 to 8 yards deep of the RB and the ball hit him in the chest.

The ESPN guys (Steve Young and co) were usually pretty tame but they absolutely destroyed McNabb after that game on merit.

 

NFCCG 5 - He killed Arizona in Philly (week 13). He demolished them. He did not show up in this game until after halftime and he disappeared again on the last 4 plays.

 

His last 5 playoff games he had a 2+ turnover streak.

The defense annihilated Tavaris (literally with a choke slam on a defensive TD) and Eli for his 2 wins in those last 5.

McNabb was a tourist.

 

These might not even be the worst play in McNabb history

Remember Freddie Mitchell and 4th and 26? Go watch the end of that drive on YouTube.

He hits a Packer defender (34 McKenzie) in the end zone who drops it. McNabb chocked that one away too, but the Packer also choked.

McKenzie had under coverage on Pinkston and McNabb did not throw it fade or back shoulder he threw it at McKenzie.

It might be unfair to call it a drop on McKenzie because Pinkston was also playing DB at the end to save the team.

Ngl, out of all of our SBs, I was most confident against McNabb's Eagles.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

More than the Delhomme led Panthers?

Yes. That Panthers team was more resilient than an infestation of roaches.

Edited by biggie.
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1 hour ago, lancerman said:

Some of us actually watch the games and know how players performed in key moments and don’t just read a stat line. 
 

This is kinda funny though considering one of the first people to defend Peyton brought up his playoff head to record vs Brady. It’s funny how wins don’t matter until they help an argument. 

The shot I was taking is actually at the “wins aren’t a QB stat” folks. Mostly because there’s no meaningful argument for Brady as the GOAT outside of what they would insist on deeming “his team’s success.”

I’m fine with that, because I recognize that the impact of QB play on team success is so substantial that they should receive credit or blame (within reason) for wins and losses. The typical disclaimer that extreme circumstances (Manning winning the SB in 2015, Josh Allen losing to KC this past year) will create outliers and reasonable context always applies.

 

On the topic at hand, it’s interesting because this is a situation that does sorta suggest the opposite of my position on QBs and winning.

There’s no question that sometimes Manning played poorly (especially in comparison to his usual excellence) in the playoffs. Same is true of Rodgers. But one of the things that’s relatively remarkable about Brady’s career, and interestingly in common with Manning’s SB years, is that he has also played rather poorly a fair amount in the playoffs — but his team has been able to overcome that with more regularity. In almost 40% of his playoff games (18 out of 47), Brady posted a passer rating below 80. But the Pats/Bucs still won 10 of those 18 games. Interestingly, outside of their three SB runs, neither Manning’s nor Rodgers’s teams have ever won a playoff game where they posted a passer rating under 80. 

In other words, it seems that every QB will have “bad” games in the playoffs. Even the magnificent Tom. One of the things that led to the amazing Pats run was the way that his team found ways to win when he didn’t play well. Maybe that was part of the magic with him as well, finding ways to make just enough plays even when he’s played poorly.

But I guess the point is: Rodgers and Manning also won the whole thing every single time that their team was good enough to bail them out on a bad game. They look like bigger chokers because their team generally lost when they didn’t play well — but they didn’t have quite the same luxury a guy like Brady had, with a team around him that could regularly pull through even when he wasn’t quite at his best. 

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