Which are you most concerned about going into this season? The Offense, or Defense?

[Thaiphoon]

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

It tells me they’re not sold on Wentz being the answer despite what they say. They don’t want to expend him to free up $10 plus mil of cap space but creating guarantee/dead $ in his deal the next two years. If Wentz disappoints they want to be able to cut him after this year.

Yes. That's the other message. I didn't buy that he could only be here for one year. But they picked up Howell this draft. So if Howell shows great strides and Wentz craps the bed, it might be a one year deal. But even with that, I just am not convinced that Wentz isn't on the squad in 2023.

But you are correct. They are hedging their bets with his contract until forced to. Converting his salary is kind of a "in case of emergency break glass" situation for the cap. It's a last resort for when we need to free up $17m+

[Thaiphoon]

16 minutes ago, offbyone said:

Thank goodness.  The only smart thing they have done.  You don't commit to a guy long term who has been rejected at his last two locations.  If we like him, we extend him next year.

You don't extend the contract and give him extra years. You just convert the $17-19m to bonus and amortize it over this year and the next two years. So even if we get rid of him after this year, his dead cap is at most $12m next year (when the cap goes way up). The point I was making was that you can convert the salary to free up cap to go get a guy you REALLY can't live without. At this point, that cap move is a last resort, but it is a smart move if we need a lot of cap space anytime during this offseason and in-season. Requires no cuts and no extra years for any player (even Wentz). So it's not "committing long term". It's more of a short term commitment (but longer than a 1 year rental). We're not talking giving him a 5 year extension.

[offbyone]

12 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

You don't extend the contract and give him extra years. You just convert the $17-19m to bonus and amortize it over this year and the next two years. So even if we get rid of him after this year, his dead cap is at most $12m next year (when the cap goes way up). The point I was making was that you can convert the salary to free up cap to go get a guy you REALLY can't live without. At this point, that cap move is a last resort, but it is a smart move if we need a lot of cap space anytime during this offseason and in-season. Requires no cuts and no extra years for any player (even Wentz). So it's not "committing long term". It's more of a short term commitment (but longer than a 1 year rental). We're not talking giving him a 5 year extension.

I get your point of view, but I just think you are then compounding a potential mistake.  I just can't commit to Wentz at this point.  By doing that you are kicking the can to next year.  I don't want to be saddled with 12M if wentz isn't the guy.  I want to walk away.  His contract might be preventing us from signing some free agents, but it isn't preventing us from extending Terry and Payne by right now.  That is our own front office.  

I think if they like Wentz then they do this next year and load up on players. 

I guess the question is, who should they have signed that they didn't because of this?   

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, offbyone said:

I get your point of view, but I just think you are then compounding a potential mistake.  I just can't commit to Wentz at this point.  By doing that you are kicking the can to next year.  I don't want to be saddled with 12M if wentz isn't the guy.  I want to walk away.  His contract might be preventing us from signing some free agents, but it isn't preventing us from extending Terry and Payne by right now.  That is our own front office.  

I think if they like Wentz then they do this next year and load up on players. 

I guess the question is, who should they have signed that they didn't because of this?   

Completely understand. My point was ONLY if we absolutely needed to sign a guy in FA, we could find the money to do it if we did the conversion. So those in the Front Office saying we don't have the cap space and his contract is the reason why we don't sign players are not being completely truthful IMHO. 

But yeah, if Wentz plays well this year, they would be smart to convert next year's salary to a bonus. Except then the amortized amount is more per year (think of $18m over 3 years rather than $18m over 2 years). And we completely agree that nothing is stopping us from extending Terry or Daron if we wanted to. I just don't know why we haven't at least done that with Terry.

I don't think we have anyone we should've signed and haven't because of Wentz' cap hit. It's why the excuses from the Front Office about cap space aren't hitting home with me

[offbyone]

1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said:

Completely understand. My point was ONLY if we absolutely needed to sign a guy in FA, we could find the money to do it if we did the conversion. So those in the Front Office saying we don't have the cap space and his contract is the reason why we don't sign players are not being completely truthful IMHO. 

But yeah, if Wentz plays well this year, they would be smart to convert next year's salary to a bonus. Except then the amortized amount is more per year (think of $18m over 3 years rather than $18m over 2 years). And we completely agree that nothing is stopping us from extending Terry or Daron if we wanted to. I just don't know why we haven't at least done that with Terry.

I don't think we have anyone we should've signed and haven't because of Wentz' cap hit. It's why the excuses from the Front Office about cap space aren't hitting home with me

Yeah, I see what you mean and you are exactly right.  They are acting like they are hamstrung by the Wentz deal, but they aren't truly constrained, it is a clear choice.  This also kind of tells me they don't believe in themselves to be ready to win big.  They aren't confident enough in the team to put all their chips on the table.

If terry isn't done by July 1st I am going to have a big problem.  At this point I don't understand the delay.  I still think they should try to keep payne too, but that ship seems to have sailed.

 

 

[ARTMONK HOF]

My post is plain and simple for this to be a successful year.

My concerns are the Offensive Line and the Defensive Line since it will dictate on how this season will go.
Carson like the acquisition or not has the best talent we have had in a long time and defenses will actually have to respect the downfield passing plays since he can actually throw it more than 35 yards.

My feeling is if we win in the trenches the majority of the time we will do well this year. Our offensive has enough talent at the skill positions to be a good team and set Carson up to be successful by giving him time.
The defensive line has to apply pressure and play the appropriate gaps which will help our back 7 and will help our offense in getting more opportunities with the ball. 
Not winning in the trenches and we will be in for a long season where Carson’s football life will be over and possibly RR coaching status as well.

I believe we have enough talent on this team to make the playoffs. It will come down to execution and injuries. 

 

 

[turtle28]

On 6/15/2022 at 12:05 AM, ARTMONK HOF said:

My post is plain and simple for this to be a successful year.

My concerns are the Offensive Line and the Defensive Line since it will dictate on how this season will go.
Carson like the acquisition or not has the best talent we have had in a long time and defenses will actually have to respect the downfield passing plays since he can actually throw it more than 35 yards.

My feeling is if we win in the trenches the majority of the time we will do well this year. Our offensive has enough talent at the skill positions to be a good team and set Carson up to be successful by giving him time.
The defensive line has to apply pressure and play the appropriate gaps which will help our back 7 and will help our offense in getting more opportunities with the ball. 
Not winning in the trenches and we will be in for a long season where Carson’s football life will be over and possibly RR coaching status as well.

I believe we have enough talent on this team to make the playoffs. It will come down to execution and injuries. 

 

 

I think it’s more than just “winning the trenches,” last year our D struggled the first month & a half because our back 7 had a lot of miscommunication and players often blew their assignments. This year we have 6 out of our starting back 7 back, the chemistry they started to show in late October through mid December was promising. With our D improving those mid season & with us focusing more on the run game we won 4 straight & nearly 6 straight.
 

If our back 7 plays as it did from mid October - Mid December last year we’ll be in every game. We also need Jamin & BSJ to take jumps in their development & to play good to great. 

[ARTMONK HOF]

40 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I think it’s more than just “winning the trenches,” last year our D struggled the first month & a half because our back 7 had a lot of miscommunication and players often blew their assignments. This year we have 6 out of our starting back 7 back, the chemistry they started to show in late October through mid December was promising. With our D improving those mid season & with us focusing more on the run game we won 4 straight & nearly 6 straight.
 

If our back 7 plays as it did from mid October - Mid December last year we’ll be in every game. We also need Jamin & BSJ to take jumps in their development & to play good to great. 

My take and I was always of the opinion that success in the trenches will dictate success or failure. Success on the OL/DL makes everyone’s job easier and the pressure lessens but of course we have to execute. Like with every team injuries always play a big role. 
 

[turtle28]

11 hours ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

My take and I was always of the opinion that success in the trenches will dictate success or failure. Success on the OL/DL makes everyone’s job easier and the pressure lessens but of course we have to execute. Like with every team injuries always play a big role. 
 

I am entirely on board with that but, if your back 7 can’t cover or your LBs fill the wrong holes in the run game your D is going to suck like ours did the first 6 weeks of the season even if your DL is playing average to good as ours was.

It’s why Rivera kept saying the back 7 and DL work together, he was trying to say they need the entire D unit to play better & if one unit isn’t, the D won’t look good. Sometimes that was the DL, most times it was the LBs or DBs who were playing poorly or flat out blowing assignments.

The back seven’s issues the first 6 weeks of last year made our entire D bad. They weren’t covering well, they were blowing assignments & it allowed for an easy pitch and catch between QBs & receivers and that’s a major reason why our DEs didn’t get home as much despite putting a lot of pressure on the QBs.

Edited June 18, 2022 by turtle28