Ryan Poles general evaluation and opinions

[JAF-N72EX]

As a new GM of the Bears, every move Ryan Poles makes will be put under a microscope and we will all have different feelings about each of them. So lets use this thread to evaluate his progression (or regression) and express our opinions here instead of derailing separate threads that are largely off-topic.

[JAF-N72EX]

@dll2000 (The latest update from invision stopped people from quoting a tree for some dumb reason so I have to make due)

On 5/14/2022 at 8:02 PM, Bigbear72 said:

I totally agree with this point and that is why I believe he is trying to position himself for a much more productive 2023 FA period.

Quote

That remains to be seen, but you can’t just totally sit on a giant pile of cash.   You will have to spend some.   Though Patriots did actually do that for awhile a few years back.  

We don't know what his tendencies are yet. Using one offseason to project any GM's future plans is a flawed argument for several reasons. For or against.

But to your point, yes, if he ignores free agency next year and only relies on the draft like he did this year then he's going to catch hell for it and for good reason. Especially when we have an estimated 94M in effective cap space next year (30M more than the 2nd most in the league).

Plus we don't have very many players who need or deserve an extension in 2023 either. Off the top of my head I can't think of any, other than;

Roquan= Absolutely. In fact, I think they use this years money t extend him before next year. It would only make sense.

Monty = MAYBE, but ONLY IF he stays healthy and really shows out. If not then we'll see you later Monty. You don't pay RBs unless they are special and Khalil has shown to be a good replacement.

Mooney = IF he shows he can at least progress and be a viable fringe #1 like we expect him too, then yes.  It would smart to use the large amount of money in 2023 to extend him since the 1st year cap hit on the extension will be low and wouldn't take into effect until 2024 since he would play out his initial 4th year rookie contract in 2023.

Fields = Sure, I guess, if he really blows up. But I would against it. Extending a QB after only 1 good year when you have 2 more to evaluate him would be a bad move IMO. This is how you end up with a Carson Wentz situation.

Anyhow, the point is, you can't fix everything in the draft and Poles has plenty of money to spare next year and if doesn't use it wisely then he's a fool.

[JAF-N72EX]

BTW, this is a continuation of the discussion from here.  Which is the point of this thread. 

 

[JAF-N72EX]

While everyone is talking about Poles hiring Eberflus' for HC/defense and Getsy's unknown offense....I'm also over here wondering why he hired Richard Hightower for special teams instead of keeping Chris Tabor.

Does anyone remember Hightower being hired by Pace in 2016 as an assistant ST coach? I do. I also look at the how he has been the 49ers ST coach for 4 years and how it doesn't even come close in comparison to Tabor's resume.

Hightower's DVOA ST ranking in the last 4 years with the 49ers

2021: 26th  (-2.4%)
2020: 23rd  (-2.1%)
2019: 12th   (+1.0%)
2018: 14th   (+0.3%)

The 49ers ranked 11th (+2.7%) before he took over.

Tabors DVOA ST ranking in the last 4 years with the Bears

2021: 7th (+2.1%)
2020: 8th (+2.6%)
2019: 13th (+0.9%)
2018: 26th (-3.2%)

The Bears ranked 23rd (+2.4%) before he took over.

----------

One coach was an ascending a group and was coached by one of the best ST coaches in history (Toub) and was replaced by a coach who was regressing.

This one of my concerns with the staff Poles chose. I hope I'm wrong but this was another mistake. But maybe that's why he decided to draft a couple more returners.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by JAF-N72EX

[JAF-N72EX]

Good to see Ross is already opening some eyes in KC. 

But injury/contract doe......

 

[dll2000]

7 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Good to see Ross is already opening some eyes in KC. 

But injury/contract doe......

 

I derail threads all the time, but didn’t you just say you started this thread to strictly discuss Poles moves and evaluate him? LOL

[dll2000]

On 5/16/2022 at 1:57 AM, JAF-N72EX said:

While everyone is talking about Poles hiring Eberflus' for HC/defense and Getsy's unknown offense....I'm also over here wondering why he hired Richard Hightower for special teams instead of keeping Chris Tabor.

Does anyone remember Hightower being hired by Pace in 2016 as an assistant ST coach? I do. I also look at the how he has been the 49ers ST coach for 4 years and how it doesn't even come close in comparison to Tabor's resume.

Hightower's DVOA ST ranking in the last 4 years with the 49ers

2021: 26th  (-2.4%)
2020: 23rd  (-2.1%)
2019: 12th   (+1.0%)
2018: 14th   (+0.3%)

The 49ers ranked 11th (+2.7%) before he took over.

Tabors DVOA ST ranking in the last 4 years with the Bears

2021: 7th (+2.1%)
2020: 8th (+2.6%)
2019: 13th (+0.9%)
2018: 26th (-3.2%)

The Bears ranked 23rd (+2.4%) before he took over.

----------

One coach was an ascending a group and was coached by one of the best ST coaches in history (Toub) and was replaced by a coach who was regressing.

This one of my concerns with the staff Poles chose. I hope I'm wrong but this was another mistake. But maybe that's why he decided to draft a couple more returners.

 

 

Maybe Tabor wasn't an option.  Also maybe they wanted a clean slate from old regime.

But it is an interesting observation given that they have really emphasized special teams ability in their personnel additions and draft picks.  Seems special teams is very important to them.

 

 

[dll2000]

As I have stated in previous threads Poles bypassed some FAs that would help Bears be competitive this year and in near future.

Guys in 25 -27 age range that could be good through Fields rookie contract and were not expensive.  Moves that could have been made and were not.  

He traded Mack, is looking to trade Quinn and let Robinson, Nichols, Daniels and Hicks go.

All this tells us that Poles is clearly not in win now mode.   People who think that he is by elevating ESB or Pringle or Velus or even Patrick are doing so in a homerish way and not looking at evidence.   I would even go so far to say that he is partially playing for a higher draft pick in 2023, but not full out tanking.  He is just not trying to compete for anything of note.  

And I say that believing that Patrick is a suitable center and Velus has offensive potential.   But they are not proven force multipliers or needle movers, but rather likely role players at best.  Maybe Velus will be at some point, who knows.  

I also think Poles had a pretty good draft for slots he was picking.   His first three picks and 5th round DE are already getting early accolades from coaches and writers which mean little and prove nothing, but better than opposite.  It is encouraging.

I think we need to come to grips that we are worst roster in division for the year 2022 top to bottom all things considered.  Yes, even worse than Lions.  I think even Poles knows that.   Now can we surprise?  Yes, it is possible.  It has happened before throughout league.   Young players you didn't think would be that good suddenly are.   Or QB gets hot or what have you.   

The jury on Poles will be decided after 2024 season.   He gets his rebuild and he gets his coaches.   Not to say I won't be critical of his moves and non-moves along the way.

Edited May 26, 2022 by dll2000
typo

[HuskieBear]

11 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Good to see Ross is already opening some eyes in KC. 

But injury/contract doe......

 

Nobody ever doubted Ross's talent, and I'm not sure what you mean by his contract. But yes, he has legitimate injury concerns - but that doesn't mean he's still not talented or that i didn't think we should have signed or drafted him. but he went undrafted for a reason, and 1 catch during OTAs isn't suddenly going to change things. Every single team, including the chiefs, passed on him in the draft as well.

[JAF-N72EX]

12 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I derail threads all the time, but didn’t you just say you started this thread to strictly discuss Poles moves and evaluate him? LOL

I am discussing Poles lol. This was just another way of me saying Poles should've picked him up.

[JAF-N72EX]

13 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

Nobody ever doubted Ross's talent, and I'm not sure what you mean by his contract. But yes, he has legitimate injury concerns - but that doesn't mean he's still not talented or that i didn't think we should have signed or drafted him. but he went undrafted for a reason, and 1 catch during OTAs isn't suddenly going to change things. Every single team, including the chiefs, passed on him in the draft as well.

I'm not talking about drafting him but signing him as a UDFA.  Passing up on a player with his upside at one of the weakest positions while trying to develop Fields is a missed opportunity. Especially when there was no real risk.

Hell even drafting him late in the 6th round would've been a risk, yes, but I would've rather taken a chance on a guy with his upside at a position of need (WR) than taking a guy at one of the very few positions they were deep at (RB) who wasn't even the best RB on his own team in college. Ross going undrafted was only icing on the cake. No risk at all. There was no risk of drafting him, and him getting injured, whilst possibly passing up on guy who can play. There was no risk of cap space if he does ball out because his cap hit is low that it doesn't even count against the top-51. This is what the UDFA was made for in the first place. To find guys who fell for one reason or another but still have the talent and give them a chance to prove themselves without risking anything. This is epitome of a guy like Ross.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

14 hours ago, dll2000 said:

As I have stated in previous threads Poles bypassed some FAs that would help Bears be competitive this year and in near future.

Guys in 25 -27 age range that could be good through Fields rookie contract and were not expensive.  Moves that could have been made and were not.  

He traded Mack, is looking to trade Quinn and let Robinson, Nichols, Daniels and Hicks go.

All this tells us that Poles is clearly not in win now mode.   People who think that he is by elevating ESB or Pringle or Velus or even Patrick are doing so in a homerish way and not looking at evidence.   I would even go so far to say that he is partially playing for a higher draft pick in 2023, but not full out tanking.  He is just not trying to compete for anything of note.  

And I say that believing that Patrick is a suitable center and Velus has offensive potential.   But they are not proven force multipliers or needle movers, but rather likely role players at best.  Maybe Velus will be at some point, who knows.  

I also think Poles had a pretty good draft for slots he was picking.   His first three picks and 5th round DE are already getting early accolades from coaches and writers which mean little and prove nothing, but better than opposite.  It is encouraging.

I think we need to come to grips that we are worst roster in division for the year 2022 top to bottom all things considered.  Yes, even worse than Lions.  I think even Poles knows that.   Now can we surprise?  Yes, it is possible.  It has happened before throughout league.   Young players you didn't think would be that good suddenly are.   Or QB gets hot or what have you.   

The jury on Poles will be decided after 2024 season.   He gets his rebuild and he gets his coaches.   Not to say I won't be critical of his moves and non-moves along the way.

I've disagreed with just about every move he has made this off season, starting with choosing Eberflus. He would've been fine as a DC but I'm not as convinced as some fans to be as a HC.  From there it just down spiraled.... starting with completely gutting the roster and trying eradicate any player from the former regime, and sitting on his hands in free agency (which is what forced him to have to go BPA in the 2nd round because of all the holes he created).  The roster wasn't so bad that you start a complete rebuild, especially if your trying to build around a potential franchise QB that you truly believe in. You gut the roster and start over when you don't have a QB you believe in enough to build around. And it's for this very same reason that while I don't fully agree with the idea that Poles/Flus are not sold on Fields, I'm also not brushing it off like most fans are either because I do think there is some smoke to it. Maybe little but smoke nonetheless. Right now I'm about 75/25 based on Poles/Flus decisions.

Although I will say if he doesn't believe in Fields and he was going to gut the roster and do a complete rebuild anyhow then I would rather him start it now than wait until next year. So I'll give him some credit there I guess.

I disagreed with not getting Fields more WR help at one of the weakest positions in the 2nd round and only drafting one that he reached for. If I can even call Velus a WR--more like a hybrid .

I disagreed with drafting a RB--if I can even call him that either--when RB is one of our deepest positions. Hell, his former teammate was a RB than he is.

I disagreed with trading Mack and 24M for a meager 2nd round pick. That was absolutely foolish. Talk about recent rape cases. Then to make matters worse he signs Al Qaeda (or whatever his name is) on a 2/8 deal as a replacement. The guy has 25 starts to his name out of a possible 81 in 5 years with 17 of those in one year. His 6 sacks in 17 games last year may look good on paper until you go back and look where those 6 sacks came from. And those are numbers. Nevermind the impact Mack had that go beyond numbers that AQ can't replace.

I disagreed with not resigning Daniels when we have a huge hole at RG. This made no sense and still doesn't. He(staff) says he wants smaller athletic OL who can pull/run and get the 2nd level quicker to better fit his outside zone scheme and I can understand that. But then why keep Mustipher?  He's listed at 6-2 332 and Daniels is listed as 6-4 327 and far more athletic than Mustipher is. Sure Mustipher had his best year in 2020 when he weighed less until he was asked to put on weight last year but the same can be said for Daniels.

I disagreed with not resigning Nichols and replacing him with Justin Jones for more money. Nichols signed a 2/8 deal and he's been better and more reliable than Jones has and Poles signed him for 2/12 and he has yet to play a full season of football in 4 years. Nichols cap in 2022 in 5.5M and Jones' is 6M.

I disagree with not targeting more depth at TE. If Getsy is supposed to run an offense similar to those who he came up under (Shanny/Lafleur) then he is going to need more than Kmet and bunch of nobodies to implement the offense in a way he envisions it since Shanny and Lafluer routinely use multiple TE sets.

I could go on and on.

The only decisions I've agreed with so far is releasing Hicks, Goldman, Cohen, and Trevathan but those moves were already written. Signing Patrick was the best move he made all off season IMO. I liked the idea of signing Ogun, the contract was fair, and I don't blame the FO for him failing a physical.... but I do however question the evaluation process and how thorough it was though--or lack thereof. The fact that was Poles first 'big signing" in FA and he couldn't even pass a physical gives me pause.

I guess I should include Poles/Flus signing Getsy too as one of the things "I like"---I'm kinda using that loosely here. I question his inexperience but I am warming up to him the more I go back and watch Packers/49ers games and see how they use certain skill sets and try to tie those to the Bears roster.  I still wish that if we were going to poach from the Packers staff that it would've been Hackett instead, since then we would know more about what we were getting, but I'm willing to give Getsy a chance.

All in all, I hope Poles and Fields is the answer to all of our prayers.

[Sugashane]

I'm definitely in the "this was an underwhelming offseason" camp. I wanted more young blood at WR and OL. Long term he hopefully process to be making the right calls. 

 

[dll2000]

The Ogun signing and reneg was a bad look.  Ogun lost out on millions of dollars and it was noticed.  I know Poles felt bad, but players and agents took note.  Also cost Bears probably a free agent due to timing.  So a double whammy of bad.

Bidding for and barely missing on FA signings is also a bad look.  He missed out on Rams center and Buffalo guard.  Doesn’t show me that he is a closer for what he wants.  It wasn’t even an overpay situation in either case.  Other GMs get those deals done. 

I think Poles inexperience and youth has shown a bit in the offseason at times. 

 

[AZBearsFan]

41 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I'm definitely in the "this was an underwhelming offseason" camp. I wanted more young blood at WR and OL. Long term he hopefully process to be making the right calls. 

 

I think we got young blood. I was expecting more known commodities to be added.

I don’t think what Poles did with the offense this offseason was bad - it just wasn’t the direction I expected he’d go. I expected he’d load up with asset focus around Fields and then fill the gaps elsewhere, and he’s gone the opposite way with more significant investments at the defensive need positions. I like what he did with the secondary quite a bit.

You could look at the approach around Fields and the easy narrative is that Poles set up Fields to fail. But in trying to look at it from Poles’ perspective I think you could really argue the opposite.

Say they did load up around Fields at the skill positions. Say we added Amari Cooper and Juju alongside Mooney and maybe Austin Hooper too. Expectations for Fields in 2022 (at least outside HH) would be astronomical, and in all likelihood, unrealistically so. His 2021 rookie year offered him questionable development, and he himself has undergone some pretty significant fundamental changes this offseason. You could very easily contend that putting him in a situation where a big leap in 2022 is the expectation would have been setting him up to fail more than what was done giving him what most are terming to be underwhelming weapons. The 2022 expectation with what they’ve done seems to be growth, which is certainly long term oriented and realistically attainable, and bolstering the secondary should help keep them competitive along the way and, if Fields still makes a big jump, maybe more than just competitive. Again, not what I expected them to do, but if that’s the plan here then at least I get it. 

With that, even in that there was certainly room between the two extremes there where different moves could have been made without drastically altering the expectations upon Fields for immediate stardom. At WR with what they did add they seemed to target guys they know can fill specific roles versus multiple guys who can fill several roles. It’s not an unheard of approach, but again, not what I expected.