Extension season.

[43M]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

PFF left him off the top 32 calling him a volume guy at best.

I cant see him being outside the top 30, but either way....there is nothing anyone can say to convince me that DJ is worth more than $12 to 15m per year at this point.   I dont care what Christian Kirk got.   He was laughably overpaid by a grossly incompetent front office.   That doesnt mean we should follow suit.   Thats exactly why the Ravens traded Marquise Brown...because they knew they were going to have to pay him above his value to the team.

Our front office doesn't have the balls or foresight to make moves like that, but I at least hope they are smart enough to not give a guy who at best is a top 20 WR over $20m a year.

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, AFF said:

Truthfully FA will cause us to have to pay more than that

Because someone is going to offer that much. 
 

that’s how that should have ended. 

[Raidersfan1]

I am highly unconventional.

Franchise Tag Minkah - dangle the bait.

Outright trade DJ. 

Draft a replacement for Boz

Throw cash at Tuitt to make it worth his while. 5 years, $70m

 

The DL room is trash. Wormley and Alualu are just preventing development. Tuitt, Heyward, Adams, Leal, and Loudermilk. Getting snaps and developing whilst adding one dynamic player over time is a strong unit.

Fitzpatrick ain't worth it. Rinse and repeat.

DJ ain't worth it. Rinse and repeat.

Boz ......... Not paying a kicker that much. Allocate more funds to team and start scoring touchdowns.

 

If the Vikings had a bad kicker to not rely on, they'd have a ring. 

I don't concern myself with field goals. Touchdowns and safeties. Onside kicks and going for two.

[Raidersfan1]

I would slot Fitzpatrick in at Nickel for the Saints. Send DJ with him. Get back Michael Thomas and pay him $25m per year.

Like I said, unconventional.

[BradfordSteeler]

9 hours ago, warfelg said:

PFF left him off the top 32 calling him a volume guy at best.

I'm not convinced he's a top 15 guy, but he is definitely top 30.

[warfelg]

4 hours ago, BradfordSteeler said:

I'm not convinced he's a top 15 guy, but he is definitely top 30.

I'm in the about 20-ish camp.

He was a high volume guy getting targeted a lot.  This year would be a test which is why I'm against extending him now and rather see him walk than extended.  We need to see him without Ben and not as a rookie to determine if he has the ability to be a game breaker.  As of right now, that answer to me is a no.  He's not a guy that can do what those top 10 can do with game changing catches, doing the 5 for 100 with a TD thing.  His stat line tends to look more like 9 targets 6 catches 88 yards and maybe a TD.  Which isn't bad, but that's not what you are looking for out of a true #1 WR.

Basically; can he make Trubisky/Pickett look good their rookie year by being the WR that can make things happen and open things up even when covered?  I'm not enthusiastic about it.  

If I had to guess:

Pickens is going to be 'that dude' who teams feel they need to focus on.

Austin/Claypool are going to be guys that teams feel they can't lose track of.

Freiermuth is going to become that elite level security blanket.

DJ's going to put up numbers, but it's likely to take a hit because of other players rather than QB play.

[Raidersfan1]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

I'm in the about 20-ish camp.

He was a high volume guy getting targeted a lot.  This year would be a test which is why I'm against extending him now and rather see him walk than extended.  We need to see him without Ben and not as a rookie to determine if he has the ability to be a game breaker.  As of right now, that answer to me is a no.  He's not a guy that can do what those top 10 can do with game changing catches, doing the 5 for 100 with a TD thing.  His stat line tends to look more like 9 targets 6 catches 88 yards and maybe a TD.  Which isn't bad, but that's not what you are looking for out of a true #1 WR.

Basically; can he make Trubisky/Pickett look good their rookie year by being the WR that can make things happen and open things up even when covered?  I'm not enthusiastic about it.  

If I had to guess:

Pickens is going to be 'that dude' who teams feel they need to focus on.

Austin/Claypool are going to be guys that teams feel they can't lose track of.

Freiermuth is going to become that elite level security blanket.

DJ's going to put up numbers, but it's likely to take a hit because of other players rather than QB play.

Schematically, if you were interested in that kind of thing, would involve Pickens as Plaxico Burress. But not as tall. But similar contact balance. Athleticism. Physicality. Similar antics, but it's all gravy.

Chase Claypool is a detached tight end that's a matchup nightmare as _____ tight end, "slot", etc. He's always on the strong side but never on the outside. It's a seam issue. He's a one trick pony, so just outrun everyone. You'd like to get him on a LB, S, or slot CB, bc it's a mismatch. This really drives action. Safeties sink and you can work underneath. Then you lull them to sleep and hit them over the top. Very simple concepts. You need to game plan for weapons and just whistling dixie hoping for something to happen. On 2nd & 4 after a six yard run, you probably wanna call the "TE screen" to Claypool, especially after you put them to sleep with the inception they are prepared to run three more times for this first down. Then you run again on first down and then run playaction to Muthhh. That's a nice little 35-40 yard sequence. Requiring no talent at the quarterback position.

 You got Austin as a traditional slot in an either/or type situation with Claypool. Not so much a 4th WR on the weak side. He can get lost in the wash or do a bit of cleaning himself. In bunch sets, preferably. Three songs offshooting in different directions. Someone's open. Also a simple read.

What you need is an Antonio Brown or Michael Thomas that shifts eyes to the left side of the formation. A dominant presence so to speak. Because the way I see it... DJ ain't moving any eyes. Single him up. Focus attention to the strong side. We'll go box heavy cuz you ain't gonna do nothin' ... And we'll just operate in the boa constricting your every move...

When you have a dominant WR on the weak side you operate on two fronts. And the safety can't just look left. He looks left and you go right. And snap...

 

Kansas City shuffle

[bigben07MVP]

8 hours ago, BradfordSteeler said:

I'm not convinced he's a top 15 guy, but he is definitely top 30.

I encourage you to actually go through the process of finding 15 WRs you’d take over DJ

(in no order): 

1. Deebo

2. Tyreek

3. Adams

4. Diggs

5. Jefferson

6. Lamb

7. Cupp 

8. Chase

9. DK Metcalf

10. AJ Brown

11. McLaurin

12. D Hop

These are the only ones I’m for sure taking above DJ. I think he fits in a tier with Waddle, Higgins, Godwin, Evans. So at worst he’s 17 imo.

My problem with letting DJ go is he is so so close to being a true #1 and solidifying himself as a top 10 guy if he can get it together mentally (which he did the first half of last season). It would sting pretty bad to watch him go to a team like the Packers or something and finally put it all together. He’s a top 8 route runner and YAC guy at worst, which IMO are the two most valuable traits for a WR in today’s NFL.

With that being said, our track record of drafting and developing WRs makes me a little hesitant to give DJ a contract north of 20mill/year. Give us a pick in the 32-45 range for him and I bet we can find a guy to replace what he can do for obviously much cheaper.

In conclusion, I hope we keep DJ. I’d love to see him finally break that mental hurdle and become dominant. His attributes also make him a great asset for Pickett/Trubisky when you need a security blanket or a guy you know can beat his man on 3rd and 8. But at the same time, I’ll understand a decision to let him walk and will be able to live with it especially if we get a pick for him or Claypool/Pickens show us something this year.

 

[warfelg]

21 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

I encourage you to actually go through the process of finding 15 WRs you’d take over DJ

No order not looking at your list:

Diggs, Kupp, Adams, Hill, Jefferson, Allen, Brown, Metcalf, Allen, McLauren, Deebo, DHop, Evans, Chase. 
 

Thats 14
 

I think by the end of the season we will add DeVontae Smith, Waddle, Lamb, Pittman, St. Brown. 
 

That’s puts me at 19. 

The question mark guys like Goodwin, Sutton  

I think I’m DJs level is Moore, Lockett, Higgins, Aiyuk. 
 

 

[warfelg]

28 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

With that being said, our track record of drafting and developing WRs makes me a little hesitant to give DJ a contract north of 20mill/year. Give us a pick in the 32-45 range for him and I bet we can find a guy to replace what he can do for obviously much cheaper.

IIRC only award and AB have gotten second long term contracts (aka big money) from the Steelers since like ‘92. 

[BradfordSteeler]

28 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

I encourage you to actually go through the process of finding 15 WRs you’d take over DJ

(in no order): 

1. Deebo

2. Tyreek

3. Adams

4. Diggs

5. Jefferson

6. Lamb

7. Cupp 

8. Chase

9. DK Metcalf

10. AJ Brown

11. McLaurin

12. D Hop

These are the only ones I’m for sure taking above DJ. I think he fits in a tier with Waddle, Higgins, Godwin, Evans. So at worst he’s 17 imo.

My problem with letting DJ go is he is so so close to being a true #1 and solidifying himself as a top 10 guy if he can get it together mentally (which he did the first half of last season). It would sting pretty bad to watch him go to a team like the Packers or something and finally put it all together. He’s a top 8 route runner and YAC guy at worst, which IMO are the two most valuable traits for a WR in today’s NFL.

With that being said, our track record of drafting and developing WRs makes me a little hesitant to give DJ a contract north of 20mill/year. Give us a pick in the 32-45 range for him and I bet we can find a guy to replace what he can do for obviously much cheaper.

In conclusion, I hope we keep DJ. I’d love to see him finally break that mental hurdle and become dominant. His attributes also make him a great asset for Pickett/Trubisky when you need a security blanket or a guy you know can beat his man on 3rd and 8. But at the same time, I’ll understand a decision to let him walk and will be able to live with it especially if we get a pick for him or Claypool/Pickens show us something this year.

 

Mike Williams, Allen Robinson, Michael Thomas (when healthy) and Keenan Allen would all be in there ahead of him for me, along with Both Evans and Godwin who you mentioned.

[August4th]

I can live with them giving DJ a 20 mil a yr type deal(its the new normal now) or just letting him walk. seems like every draft is a good WR draft and we can always sign another teams top WR in FA to replace Johnson, so losing him won't bother me either

[Dcash4]

16 minutes ago, August4th said:

seems like every draft is a good WR draft and we can always sign another teams top WR in FA to replace Johnson, so losing him won't bother me either

Every draft moving forward will be the "best/deepest" WR draft ever. But I don't want to need to draft a new receiver every single year. That room costs us $7M next year, we can afford to spend there for 2-3 year stretch. 

Whether he is a number 1 or not means very little to me. I want to retain a guy I know does diverse things in terms of our other receivers, can succeed at the NFL level, can solidify a position group with a rookie deal QB for 2-3 years, and eliminates the need to continually draft the same position in the top 66. That stuff is part of the "is he worth it" equation, IMO. If we extend DJ, I hope Pickens immediately Jamaar Chase's the #1 spot. That's a good thing, not a bad one because your are paying your #2. NFL contracts don't make sense, so there's not much use in trying to tying them to just player worth.

Perfect world for me: extend DJ, Pickens becomes the stud on his rookie deal and extends just as DJ is coming off, we flip Claypool after another productive year for something in the top 60, and Kenny has his core skills group set for his rookie deal so you concentrate assets everywhere else. The scenario I fear: Let DJ walk, Pickens isn't that dude, we are either forced to extend Claypool or he walks too (if DJ isn't worth paying, nothing suggests Chase is either), and we continue to NEED to draft receivers who are good enough, but not great in the top 60 all while Kenny's rookie deal expires. 

I cannot stress how much I want us to actually take advantage of the Kenny rookie deal window. Letting go of a player that we all seem to believe is a top 20 guy seems very odd for that when we have the money and flexibility to spend. 

[bigben07MVP]

1 hour ago, BradfordSteeler said:

Mike Williams, Allen Robinson, Michael Thomas (when healthy) and Keenan Allen would all be in there ahead of him for me, along with Both Evans and Godwin who you mentioned.

Agree to disagree then.

Mike Williams is extremely inconsistent. He had a dominant 5 game stretch to start the season and was mediocre the rest. Also dude can’t stay healthy.

Allen Robinson looked pretty washed last year. I know he’s never had a great QB situation but neither did DJ the last 2-3 years. He’s a slow contested catch guy at this point in his career. 

Michael Thomas hasn’t played in 2 years and will be coming off a nasty ankle injury which could be devastating for a guy like him.

Keenan Allen clearly lost a step last year and lacks versatility. He’s a slot only guy.

None of those are even a question for me. DJ Moore and Mike Evans are the only guys mentioned that I would consider adding to the conversation. I would take Moore and Ayiuk over all the guys you mentioned but not DJ.

Edited May 25, 2022 by bigben07MVP

[43M]

4 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

I cannot stress how much I want us to actually take advantage of the Kenny rookie deal window. Letting go of a player that we all seem to believe is a top 20 guy seems very odd for that when we have the money and flexibility to spend. 

Taking advantage of that window is fine.

Paying $25m for a guy who isnt even really close to being worth that (IMO) doesn't sound like "taking advantage" of that situation.  Its sounds like fiscal irresponsibility because we can afford to be....and that approach has never worked out well.    Just because we can afford to overpay doesnt mean we should....especially for players who havent proven they are THE guy.   If DJ was a bonafide proven WR1, I wouldnt mind....but he feels like a glorified WR2.   He is closer to Emmanuel Sanders than Antonio Brown.....and while Sanders was an excellent player in his own right, he was much better as a supportive WR to a true 1.

At the very least, they should let this year play out and see how he looks in the new offense.   Then tag him next offseason and maybe work towards a new deal.  But there is no way Id pay him top end WR1 money based on what he has shown thus far.

I will say that I believe DJ has/had the talent to be a quality WR1, but I just get the impression he is fools gold.   He has never been consistently reliable, and I dont see any reason that will change.