Ravens Sign CB Kyle Fuller

[AngusMcFife]

8 hours ago, coordinator0 said:

Marlon Humphrey / Marcus Peters / Kyle Fuller / Brandon Stephens / Jalyn Armour-Davis / Damarion Williams

Marcus Williams / Chuck Clark / Kyle Hamilton / Tony Jefferson / Geno Stone

That's how I have it at the moment. If Stephens is getting snaps at safety something has gone haywire. Would be a waste when the team has Williams, Clark, and Hamilton there disguised coverages or not. There's little riding on the 4th round rookies besides competing with Stephens for snaps at CB (which is fine, he's not that great). Wade was traded (also as the 5th round pick #160) because of a perceived surplus in the secondary. Injuries made that very much not so last season, but the roster isn't shaking down like that this year. These are the other corners on the roster:

Kevon Seymour / Iman Marshall / Robert Jackson / Kevin Toliver / David Vereen / Denzel Williams

And then there's Ar'Darius Washington at safety. He's probably the best talent of the group but still firmly the 6th guy in line on the safety depth chart. Jefferson is pretty safe due to his contributions on special teams - that's always a priority for the depth players. Always.

Again, injuries can change the landscape mightily. But there's only so many resources a team can invest in one area. Rosters spots and cap space are limited. I think Fuller was the cherry-on-top/get on your knees and pray last significant move for the secondary this season. There's talk of Clark being traded but that seems unlikely to me. 

That's a fair breakdown but I definitely would not put Jefferson as a lock. He didn't play football for 2 years and got some late season snaps for us when our team was decimated by injuries. It's a nice story but he will have to ball out in training camp to make the squad. 

Likewise I think Armour-Davis will likely make the squad but maybe not Damarion Williams. We just have to see how they look. If a 4th round rookie CB struggles early and tweaks a hammy in training camp, they might miss so much important time developing and learning that the team is better off stashing them on IR. Even minor injuries can derail seasons of marginal players. 

[AngusMcFife]

8 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Brandon Stephens is wasting a roster spot IMO.

I know he's a 3rd round pick and only a 2nd year player, but does anyone really think he's a better safety than any of Williams/Clark/Hamilton/Stone, or a better corner than any of Humphrey/Peters/Washington/Fuller? In addition to our 4th round CBs, he's anywhere from the 5th-6th best safety on the team depending on how you view Jefferson, and the 6th-8th best corner on the team depending on your expectations for the rookies. So we essentially used a 3rd round pick on a player who is roughly our what, 10th-ish best defensive back?

When his best attribute is "versatility" - but he hasn't shown to be good at any of those things he can be versatile at - it's best to move on IMO. They won't cut him, but it will be frustrating watching a better player get cut and walk out of the door in lieu of him.

Man you really hate Brandon Stephens. Your scouting report goes against what most other posters saw from him. Not sure where this energy is coming from. 

[DreamKid]

3 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

Man you really hate Brandon Stephens. Your scouting report goes against what most other posters saw from him. Not sure where this energy is coming from. 

Stephens didn't play well last year, and was a questionable draft pick from the start. Being critical of his play and skeptical of his future role with the club is perfectly reasonable. 

[Ray Reed]

19 hours ago, bmorecareful said:

I think he definitely will be a better player than Clark this year and overall is a guy who has more potential than anybody but Hamilton in a dime backer role on the entire team… What can’t be ignored is that we have our top 5 DBs role/position wise.. so IMO ur sixth guys has to be a matchup guy for backs TEs and crossers… Stephens has shown on multiple occasions he has the speed to make those kinds plays… Clark is the most overrated player on the defense to me… for him to be so smart and communicate where everybody suppose to be we sure had a lot of miscommunications last season… We allowed 5,000 yards and 31TDs… and he started the most games of anyone in the secondary last year… I trust our team to develop Stephens into a better player than what Clark’s physical limitations have allowed him to be… 

Vehemently disagree with the bold. All season, anytime Brandon Stephens was involved in a play, I noticed he was 3-5 steps behind, or running guys out of bounds on the sideline after they gained 15-20 yards.

After the season I watched this breakdown - which is even trying to have a positive spin on these plays most of the time - and it confirmed what I saw in real time. He doesn't have the change of direction or quickness to stay with legit receiving options, and he isn't big enough to hold his own against legit tight ends.

Really don't see where he's shown anything positive on "multiple occasions", let alone speed. 

[Ray Reed]

11 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

Man you really hate Brandon Stephens. Your scouting report goes against what most other posters saw from him. Not sure where this energy is coming from. 

I don't hate anyone I've never met. I watched him play last year, and he was always 3 steps behind and looked stiff for a guy who was supposed to be a moldable ball of athletic clay. I'm sharing that opinion. And if the majority's opinion goes against that, it has nothing to do with how he played on the field, and everything to do with them wanting a 3rd round pick to work out.

Show me what impressed you about Brandon Stephens last year or drop the "blind hating" accusations.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Ray Reed

[AngusMcFife]

2 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Vehemently disagree with the bold. All season, anytime Brandon Stephens was involved in a play, I noticed he was 3-5 steps behind, or running guys out of bounds on the sideline after they gained 15-20 yards.

After the season I watched this breakdown - which is even trying to have a positive spin on these plays most of the time - and it confirmed what I saw in real time. He doesn't have the change of direction or quickness to stay with legit receiving options, and he isn't big enough to hold his own against legit tight ends.

Really don't see where he's shown anything positive on "multiple occasions", let alone speed. 

It's just odd that you are using a video with the following statements to "prove" your point:

"Brandon Stephens put some good film out there last year. Very reliable.... He's a good tackler in space... When he's asked to do things around the line of scrimmage I think he's exceptional... He's able to cover [the TEs] well in space."

[Ray Reed]

Just now, AngusMcFife said:

It's just odd that you are using a video with the following statements to "prove" your point:

"Brandon Stephens put some good film out there last year. Very reliable.... He's a good tackler in space... When he's asked to do things around the line of scrimmage I think he's exceptional... He's able to cover [the TEs] well in space."

And the actual film that's being displayed on that video doesn't support that. I made that point - even though it's a video trying to provide optimism, the play just wasn't there last year to warrant it. It's the same thing I suspect many other Ravens fans are doing...just hoping that it wasn't a wasted 3rd round pick. But you can't watch that film and tell me Brandon Stephens is remotely what people have suggested he is in this thread in response to my initial post. You just can't. If you see anything other than a below average football player from what Brandon Stephens showed last year we have very very different perceptions of football and we'll just agree to disagree.

[AngusMcFife]

2 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Show me what impressed you about Brandon Stephens last year or drop the "blind hating" accusations.

You already posted a video that outlines plenty of his strengths, I don't really need to add anything. 

Quote

I don't hate anyone I've never met. I watched him play last year, and he was always 3 steps behind and looked stiff for a guy who was supposed to be a moldable ball of athletic clay. I'm sharing that opinion.

Yes, just like Paraven shared his opinion of Lamar all the time. 

Quote

And if the majority's opinion goes against that, it has nothing to do with how he played on the field, and everything to do with them wanting a 3rd round pick to work out.

Got it. So any opinion that dissents from yours is wrong because they are inherently biased. 

[Ray Reed]

3 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

You already posted a video that outlines plenty of his strengths, I don't really need to add anything. 

Yes, just like Paraven shared his opinion of Lamar all the time. 

Got it. So any opinion that dissents from yours is wrong because they are inherently biased. 

Again - if you think his play on that video is an endorsement of Brandon Stephens being anything other than below average - we just fundamentally see football very differently, and you're content with a hell of a lot worse play than I am for a professional football team.

But if that's the type of play you're happy with, I'm glad you're not making the decisions, and I'm glad the FO took steps to ensure this offseason that Stephens will barely see the field next year if everyone is healthy.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Ray Reed

[Ray Reed]

But go ahead and die on the Brandon Stephens hill. We'll revisit this conversation in 2 years.

[AngusMcFife]

3 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Again - we just fundamentally see football very differently, then.

But if that's the type of play you're happy with, I'm glad you're not making the decisions, and I'm glad the FO took steps to ensure this offseason that Stephens will barely see the field next year if everyone is healthy.

That's quite some revisionist history. They were clearly shocked that Hamilton fell to them.

The Ravens were completely fine losing Averette, Young, Smith, and Westry go because they felt Stephens would be a reliable contributor. 

[AngusMcFife]

6 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

But go ahead and die on the Brandon Stephens hill. We'll revisit this conversation in 2 years.

Yes, and you'll be rooting against him the entire time I'm sure. 

[Ray Reed]

2 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Yes, and you'll be rooting against him the entire time I'm sure. 

Na I actually want players to play well for my favorite team. I just don't delude myself into thinking they're good players when they're a converted RB/S/CB who played like garbage for the worst secondary in the league and get defensive when other fans point that out.

[AngusMcFife]

4 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Na I actually want players to play well for my favorite team. I just don't delude myself into thinking they're good players when they're a converted RB/S/CB who played like garbage for the worst secondary in the league and get defensive when other fans point that out.

OK well than at least let's agree that we hope Stephens continues to improve and plays well whenever he gets the opportunity. The careers of NFL players are often unpredictable so I'm keeping an open mind. Giving up on a raw 3rd rounder playing multiple positions due to injury after one year seems rash. 

[Ray Reed]

50 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

OK well than at least let's agree that we hope Stephens continues to improve and plays well whenever he gets the opportunity. The careers of NFL players are often unpredictable so I'm keeping an open mind. Giving up on a raw 3rd rounder playing multiple positions due to injury after one year seems rash. 

Definite agree

🤝