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On 1/4/2018 at 8:42 PM, EliteTexan80 said:

I don't, sorry. I'm in charge of finding Mods, so if you know a few people interested, let me know. 

Perhaps FFMD could use an injection of new Moderators to run with this.   As someone who has ran a few of them, I can tell you - it's a grind. An honest to goodness grind.

It's why I walked away from it, to be blunt.

@EliteTexan80

@Webmaster

@EaglesPeteC

 

Pete and I are still interested.

We work hard and come cheap.  

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6 hours ago, ny92jefferis said:

@EliteTexan80

@Webmaster

@EaglesPeteC

 

Pete and I are still interested.

We work hard and come cheap.  

I'm not cheap. I demand double what @ny92jefferis is getting.

 

Also i won't work hard but i'll be enough above the terrible line to not draw negative attention 

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19 hours ago, EaglesPeteC said:

I'm not cheap. I demand double what @ny92jefferis is getting.

 

Also i won't work hard but i'll be enough above the terrible line to not draw negative attention 

Libby...haha.

 

I'm ready to start talking about this again.

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As someone from one of the least active boards on here, I would like to echo some of the sentiment here. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who's been the Cardinals GM for the past like three or four years in both FFMD and Total Control, except the one time that I pretty much boycotted. There's no fun in FFMD if I have to run it with my board because, well, the Cardinals don't have much of a following on here, and no one wants to join them. I quite honestly don't have the patience to run an FFMD team when it's me and two other people who come onto FF once a day, because what ends up happening is I try to get them involved, they aren't there, I make an executive decision, and then someone gets upset because they weren't online for 24 hours. It's why I prefer total control because I don't have to have the other people's input without being seen as a dictator. 

FFMD is dead, IMO, due to the lack of following in the smaller forums on here. It makes it tough for some people, because we can't be here all the time. And it's a pain for the mods who run it as well, which I understand. So just kill it then! There's no use to running something that some feel is more of a burden than something for fun. 

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39 minutes ago, LuckyNumber11 said:

As someone from one of the least active boards on here, I would like to echo some of the sentiment here. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who's been the Cardinals GM for the past like three or four years in both FFMD and Total Control, except the one time that I pretty much boycotted. There's no fun in FFMD if I have to run it with my board because, well, the Cardinals don't have much of a following on here, and no one wants to join them. I quite honestly don't have the patience to run an FFMD team when it's me and two other people who come onto FF once a day, because what ends up happening is I try to get them involved, they aren't there, I make an executive decision, and then someone gets upset because they weren't online for 24 hours. It's why I prefer total control because I don't have to have the other people's input without being seen as a dictator. 

FFMD is dead, IMO, due to the lack of following in the smaller forums on here. It makes it tough for some people, because we can't be here all the time. And it's a pain for the mods who run it as well, which I understand. So just kill it then! There's no use to running something that some feel is more of a burden than something for fun. 

I'm hoping that with some fresh ideas it can make a come back.  You're not alone with having a less than active team forum, the Giants has slowed down over the past few years too.  How many Moderators are assigned to your team forum?  SirA1 is a cards fan I think and he's been a big contributor to the forum and very active in my last few mock drafts. 

I actually see a lot of guys from my mock that would be willing to participate in a forum wide mock under the name of ffmd but the structure of ffmd needs to be revisited.   Neither the mods or its members want to get involved enough to make it work under its current structure.  However, if the moderators had a more limited role I think over time more of them would be willing to volunteer, right now I think most believe it's just not worth the headache, so just the name alone scares them off.  When the mods aren't vested its hard to get its posters involved.

I have been talking privately with a few of them and there is a solid chance we can develop a system that can get more mods involved and perhaps with a little work actually grow it into what it once was. 

giphy.gif

 

When I created my mock it was completely different from what most of the mockers were used to and really wasn't sure it would take hold, due to all the rules and docs but the past two years its full after a couple days of the sign up thread being posted.  I also get new guys each year that really enjoy it.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

The Future of FFMD 

@Webmaster_ I would like to convince you and the moderators that we should not let the once popular forum site ran mock draft fizzle out, simply due to a lack of interest in  managing it.  FFMD was for myself and others the reason we made this forum our home away from home.  You said yourself that you are "hoping FFMD will return this season", stating that,  "There are a lot of new features which will help in running it and it's always been a very popular with members."   You did have other concerns about reviving the team forums as some have become inactive.  While the disappearance of ffmd isn't the only reason and perhaps not even a top reason, I do believe it has contributed to the decline of some team forums that were active in the past that are now lacking in activity.  The one thing FFMD did well was generate discussion as well as traffic to the GM Mock Draft forum but also into the team sub forums, members would voice their opinions to the GM and those opinions mattered and were meet with more opinions and discussions.  The forum wide mock also created what I call friendships because it allowed us to get to know the members of not only our team forum but across the board.  

So much of the time I’ll see a member post a short piece of information and there will be very little discussion if any that follows.  FFMD discussion is the one thing that got most of the sub forums discussing ideas and directions that they wanted to take the team during the offseason and this discussion would carry over into the regular season. These mock drafts also got members involved with knowing the draft prospects, which drove traffic to other threads.  I for one decided to make this my home when I found out it housed a forum mock draft, others have said this too.  BDL's gang came to this forum not just because the site allowed them to run there sim but because there were members within the forum that got excited about mocking and simulations.  Yes, its a chessy idea, but a lot of us enjoy participating as well as managing these events.   It seems like the respect of others opinions is fading as so many are quick to judge other people's opinions to that point that we are seeing a decline in group think.  Again, the FFMD concept opened the door to having productive discussions, which contained a host of varied opinions and those differing opinions mattered to the game planning aspect of the mock. Forum friendships are formed under these mock drafts that allow for more insightful discussions to carry on after ffmd has concluded for the year.

Over the last few years, moderators have soured on the idea of having to manage FFMD, because of the amount of work involved.  In order to put the spark back into the moderators, I propose the idea of a new structure for how FFMD is operated and managed.  Using the structure that I've designed under the TCMD moderators no longer need to concern themselves with the daily grind of updating rosters, sorting out free agent contract offers, but most importantly the complaining.  The current design of FFMD, required several members to manage it.  It also created the appearance of bias and at times subjective opinions, which has always been the primary reason for all of the complaints by the GM's.  By allowing myself to manage the behind the scene daily grind it allows the moderators to focus on the real reason for having a forum wide mock draft.  They can put their time to membership retention by being active in the group discussions.  The fact is if the moderators can get onboard with FFMD, then the forum members will become more active.  Now this may take a few years but I fully expect to see participation increase across the board over the next few years using the TCMD model to host FFMD.   The system I've created removes the subjectiveness within its free agency design and those that have participated in any of my mocks can testify to this.  It also, removes the delays or deadtime from the mock as well as provides everyone enjoyment regardless of how much the team has listed as cap space. 

Unfortunately, many of the moderators that control -The Future of FFMD- have lost their excitement for it and it shows.    

“Perhaps FFMD could use an injection of new Moderators to run with this. As someone who has ran a few of them, I can tell you - it's a grind. An honest to goodness grind.
It's why I walked away from it, to be blunt.” _ EliteTexan80

Moderator, Cwood21 attempted to run the full version of ffmd in 2017, going as far as posting sign-up, discussion, rule and even included a Rules Feedback & Suggestion thread.  Members voiced their ideas for a revised concept but unfortunately, no rule changes or structure design were permitted, soon after a statement was released, canceling ffmd that year due to “interest in FFMD this year was at an arguably all-time low and after discussing it with other mods, we've come to the consensus that we are going to shelve FFMD 17. With forums that have historically been flush with GM candidates, we now have nobody interested in running as GM of their team. As a result, we've decided we're going to cancel FFMD17. We hope that someday in the future that activity can sustain FFMD. For those that have shown interest in participating in FFMD, we thank you for your interest and hope you continue to be active in other mock drafts throughout the forum.”

PersonallyI don’t think waiting to see if the activity will improve within the team sub forums before attempting to bring ffmd back is the best idea.  Rather, we should be promoting its return.  If done with the right enthusiasm, forum participation would likely see an increase over the next few years.

In 2016, Moderator, The LBC managed fmd II, using the draft only version.  Within the GM Mock Draft only, the main discussion thread for ffmd had 954 replies and almost 44,000 views.  

Prior to that dhunt2402, run the full version in 2015 with a google doc designed to make the Shark Tank more manageable and less cluttered.  The viewing and replies of the general discussion threads were massive, requiring two threads; 2,551 replies and 171,845 views.

In 2014, I assisted the moderators in keeping track of all the transactions, with the aid of various google docs that scar988, created and that I reworked to make them more automated and easier to update.  That year, the general discussion threads had high numbers in both; 3219 replies and 115,980 views.

TCMD was developed and created in 2015, under the name ny92 GM Mock Draft.  Its first year we had 2518 replies and 93,415 views. The name was changed to Total Control (TCMD) in 2016, where we ran two mocks; one being a forum wide mock draft as we wanted to give the forum the ability to participate in a forum wide mock after ffmd 1 failed to run it’s yearly full version.   The second was an individual mock. Combined the two mocks collected; 4015 replies and 162,975 views within its main discussion threads. The tcmd gang run two in 2017 as well amassing 4288 replies and 135,370 views. In 2018, we only ran one mock draft, the main discussion thread contained over 200 pages; 3,046 replies and 40,067 views.  Most of the mocks we run are ran as individual mock drafts with the option for our members to run them as a group within their team subs if they wish. I don’t have the exact number but several of them do this to keep the dream alive that ffmd will bounce back in time.

A lot of traffic to the site is dismissed without an active FFMD.

I truly believe that under the right structure and with moderator support, ffmd could get its fanbase back and that it would overtime increase the team sub forums activity, not only during the off season but the regular season as well.  Moderators have been reluctant to alter its rules and current system of how ffmd is ran, regardless of the request made by its loyal following.  Most of the moderators will tell you that it’s a grind or that a coin toss determines which unlucky moderator gets the burden of managing it.  The FFMD structure simply creates far too much work for the mod but more importantly, the members asked to participate as GM.  The lack of excitement from the moderators makes it difficult for it’s followers to get excited about it. If the moderators didn’t need to concern themselves with building, updating, tracking each transaction and combating the complaints they should get more excited about it and when they are excited about it, it's members get excited about it. 

Over the past few years, numerous questions, surveys and discussions have taken place about what members like and dislike about ffmd’s structure.  Those concerning issues have been resolved under the TCMD model and with some adjustments to the workbooks to make them more user friendly for a group within their team war rooms.  I feel that it would be an excellent model to use under the FFMD name.  

If you ask the moderators and members of the forum that have taken part in TCMD and have been a part of FFMD, most if not all of them will say that they prefer the TCMD model.

“I was a pretty active participant in FFMD for a few years, even GM'd a year or two. I admit that my interest kind of fizzled...I think it either needs to be completely stripped down and just be the mock draft, or the "offseason" needs to be tweaked considerably, and my vote would be more in favor of a blind bidding that is similar to Mike's Total Control. While the blind bidding is not perfect (the formula is constantly being tweaked so that we can experiment with different things), I will admit that some of the best times of that Mock are the blind bidding results. Everyone has fun with it. In the 49er forum, we always preferred FFMD 2 because it was just the draft - nobody in our forum cared for the free agency system or participating in that. Nobody wanted to do the work involved with it, and people found it more of a hassle than anything else. This led to a large chunk of FFMD simply being disregarded by our forum.”  _ Forge

“I echo the others that feel the FFMD and TCMD need to be joined in some manner.   I have participated in the TCMD process the last 2 years and it is hands down better than the FFMD process was for FA.  As others noted the blind bidding process is much more exciting and gets the entire group of GM's waiting around like it is Christmas morning to see the reveal of the free agent awardings.  Lots of discussion follows on the players won, the contracts handed out and a host of other things. With 8-10 rounds of that, it drives the opening FA and that leads into the draft.” _ squire12

“If you want to do the full season mock, which can be a total blast, I lean toward the TCMD way of doing it with the blind bidding. It is insane how fun that can be, particularly if you're doing the full on "unveiling". Yes, there are some kinks to it, particularly with the calculations, but those issues are nominal, and most of the time when they arise, the people who missed out on their player are generally  easy going about it. Those are some really good times within those mock drafts. Plus, its a lot simpler to just draw up your contract and put in the offer than it is to write an entire proposal and whatnot.” _ Forge

“I would have to agree with EaglesPeteC , maybe hold off with FFMD I replace it with TCMD (using Mods) and FFMD II (same using Mods) for the year. The new forum is so new and cool once it takes off with new/old blood everyone gets on board. Atleast give it a try for a season. For those that haven't tried TCMD, I haven't missed a mock in it yet. It's super cool, fun just a really cool mock to be in. This is mock that would bring FFMD back to life.” _ BringinDaPain

“Because TCMD uses a system that is very user friendly and it's not about eliminating complaints but persevering through them. TCMD has the ability to do this. This is a new forum with a lot of new members. If you don't even try you won't know.” _ Counselor

“If you combine the TCMD following with the FFMD following I think that will lead to higher participation in theory. The advantage that TCMD has it is more objective than subjective, so there is less room to complain (although people still will) The big advantage of FFMD is that it is simpler and less "involved".
At the end of the day, I enjoy mock drafts and off seasons and there are many people on this site that do. I think it is better if we can find a way to collaborate and find a product that will help drive up interest. If we  continue to be diametrically opposed in 2 camps here then I don't think that is good for anyone.”_ EaglesPeteC

“The workbooks are very user friendly.  The videos/tutorials are easy enough to follow and with enough veteran people that could serve as a support group for any new GM's, getting the process down would not be that challenging.  
Since TCMD was run twice last offseason and FFMD failed to get off the ground, I am not sure why the resistance into at least trying for the 2018 offseason using TCMD as the forum wide Mock process would not be considered.” _ squire12

“The desire to get FFMD more participation....yet not be willing to explore the options to take something that is gaining in popularity and use the extensive parts of that product for the betterment to make FFMD an option for the 2018 offseason.” _ squire12

“I'm a little late to the game but i'll speak to this from the Eagles forum standpoint. We have a TON of active members that have been here for many years that have soured on FFMD because of past issues (talent agency and whatnot). I'm not sure if this is the same across the other forums because frankly I don't visit other team forums very often. I think a re-branding of FFMD and or joint venture with TCMD would be an awesome way to introduce the same basic concept (GM-ing your teams offseason) and promote it as a site wide event.” _ Hockey5djh

“I think FFMD got too big for its own good with contract committees, talent agencies and trade committees. As someone who has participated extensively in both FFMD and TCMD I honestly believe that TCMD has somewhat solved all of the subjective issues and evened out the contracts with his entirely different FA system because it forces teams to decide what they valued the most and how much they valued that resource rather than leaving the values of the resources up to other individuals. If your biggest complaint is teaching a bunch of teens, 20, and 30 something people how to use a google doc I think you should at least open up to the idea a little more than you have been.” _Hockey5djh

“I've done Total Control a couple times and I love it. For me, it is more fun than FFMD. You have control since you are the only one running your team and the FA period, while not perfect, is more realistic.
However, it isn't simple. Anyone who invests a little time can definitely figure it out, but if the purpose of FFMD is so that even a casual observer can hop in and offer a piece of advice, my opinion is that Total Control makes that harder to do. I just see them as targeting two different purposes, which is why it is GREAT that ny92j runs total control mock draft for the true enthusiasts.” _ Tatupu_64

“I love total control I do it every year for a reason.” _ LuckyNumber11

“The FFMD doesn't work that way. It takes the strategy out of the game. It allows the rich teams to take a shotgun method to FA. They go after any FA that is remotely intriguing.
Total Control isn't perfect either. But it's a lot closer to reality. Total Control will be pretty damn good once Mike is able to get the APYs just right.” _ jrry32

“Really, the round-by-round blind bidding of TCMD makes it so compelling because you're competing with other GM's to quickly identify and prioritize the players in FA that would truly add value to your team. With tampering periods in place in the NFL, teams can't just bull-rush towards every player that they have interest in, especially if they have their sights set on high-dollar prizes. If you have a deal in place for, say, Tracy Porter at $150M annually, you can't just go offering a no-going-back deal to Byron Bell at $960K without considering the potential ramifications.” _ burnoutonme

“I've participated in TCM and had a great experience with it, but it's a mock made up of veteran FF members that have done plenty of GM mocks. For the most part though, it's one person per team, making the decisions. In FFMD, a team with a full staff of members that are contributing and want to see their work pay off are going to be more competitive (it's stupid and the whole winning FFMD thing is played out, but it's the truth) and certainly won't want to risk losing out. And it will only get worse as the rounds go along, as staffs get frustrated with losing out on players and having $50 million to work with.” _ titans0021

 

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Other members that might have interest in this topic.

@EaglesPeteC

@BringinDaPain

@scar988

@Hockey5djh

@ChaRisMa

@squire12

@Tugboat

@MKnight82

@Counselor

@jch1911

@LuckyNumber11

@burnoutonme

@wwhickok

 

 

Edited by ny92jefferis

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@ny92jefferis, I didn't read the entire post yet, but I'll leave a few comments.  

Please don't '@' every moderator and myself over something like this in the future.  That was unnecessary.

As for the FFMD.  I would like to see it return, but am not involved and never have been.  I do know that over the years it became way too complicated and extremely difficuIf to manage.  If it  returns, it needs to start very simple and easy.  Drop all the FA and other difficult transactions.  Start with just a mock draft only and see how that goes. The main goal should be to make it fun and easy for everyone to participate.  

From what I've heard, TCMD is a lot of fun and @ny92jefferis , you do an amazing job with it.  I encourage anyone who wants a detailed off-season sim to join it.

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I really think @ny92jefferis point about FFMD fostering interesting and different discussion that has a cascade effect into other threads and topics cannot be understated.  When FFMD has worked, it's been a focal point for engagement across multiple forums and really puts an emphasis on more in depth prospect discussions.  It brings something to the table that TCMD really doesn't at all, in that whole community building aspect.  That sense of community can be a significant interest and traffic generator that hooks people and extends beyond just the FFMD discussion itself, as it's something unique to this site that isn't really offered on alternative platforms that users and prospective users have bled away to over the last few years.

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34 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

I really think @ny92jefferis point about FFMD fostering interesting and different discussion that has a cascade effect into other threads and topics cannot be understated.  When FFMD has worked, it's been a focal point for engagement across multiple forums and really puts an emphasis on more in depth prospect discussions.  It brings something to the table that TCMD really doesn't at all, in that whole community building aspect.  That sense of community can be a significant interest and traffic generator that hooks people and extends beyond just the FFMD discussion itself, as it's something unique to this site that isn't really offered on alternative platforms that users and prospective users have bled away to over the last few years.

Appreciate you commenting on this topic.  The TCMD model does a lot of things to enhance the mock draft experience making the most complex task, easy to manage.  But you're correct it doesn't carry the groupthink and comradery over to other topics of discussion.  This has been the main reason I push for the return of FFMD even if it's the trimmed down version known as FFMD 2.

 

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It’s pretty clear that the two sides of this aren’t going to come to an agreement on how to make it work. There seems to be very little budge from at least one side on expectations. 

There’s serious concerns about the ability for TCMD’s workbook model to scale towards team participation and that’s going to forever be up for debate until it’s proven to work. If you’re adamant that the TCMD model can scale to create sitewide participation, just do it. Run a grouped team mock next year. 

You don’t need the FFMD title to do this. TCMD has been running for several years now and apparently gets new participants every year, if it’s truly a good idea there must 50+ posters who can talk others into signing up for spots. Create positions for each team and ask that people sign up for different roles.

And then see if it works. See if the workbooks actually foster discussion or if (as I’ve seen multiple times discussed) the GM gets stuck doing everything with the workbook because everyone else ignores it. See if it creates discussion in the team forums.

And once you prove it doesn’t neuter participation from the average user, then take that to the discussion with rebranding FFMD. Because I don’t think you’re going to get the FFMD handed over to something that might create exclusion based on the materials needed to play.

 

And please stop tagging me in all of these posts. I don’t run FFMD. I work obscene hours during draft season and couldn’t run it even if I wanted to. 

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2 hours ago, pwny said:

It’s pretty clear that the two sides of this aren’t going to come to an agreement on how to make it work. There seems to be very little budge from at least one side on expectations. 

There’s serious concerns about the ability for TCMD’s workbook model to scale towards team participation and that’s going to forever be up for debate until it’s proven to work. If you’re adamant that the TCMD model can scale to create sitewide participation, just do it. Run a grouped team mock next year. 

You don’t need the FFMD title to do this. TCMD has been running for several years now and apparently gets new participants every year, if it’s truly a good idea there must 50+ posters who can talk others into signing up for spots. Create positions for each team and ask that people sign up for different roles.

And then see if it works. See if the workbooks actually foster discussion or if (as I’ve seen multiple times discussed) the GM gets stuck doing everything with the workbook because everyone else ignores it. See if it creates discussion in the team forums.

And once you prove it doesn’t neuter participation from the average user, then take that to the discussion with rebranding FFMD. Because I don’t think you’re going to get the FFMD handed over to something that might create exclusion based on the materials needed to play.

 

And please stop tagging me in all of these posts. I don’t run FFMD. I work obscene hours during draft season and couldn’t run it even if I wanted to. 

Appreciate the guidance on how to approach this.  Apologies for tagging you and every other mod in here, my intentions were good just went about it the wrong way. 

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Posted (edited)

I understand its early to be discussing a mock draft, but for the person building the workbooks, threads as well as focused on maintaining the original tcmd, I'd like to start talking about this now if at all possible.

I've been kicking a few ideas around with the structure of a forum wide mock draft with some others privately but if the main concern really is, finding a way for the average poster to get involved we can definitely work on that.  I just don't think that ffmd when it was running really made it all that user friendly to the new posters.  For those that knew ffmd, the rules really never changed which allowed them to be vaguely written, which came with a ton of questions.

From all the research I've done the most common issues have been resolved using the tcmd model and workbooks.  Now, the challenge is making those workbooks even easier to manage or at the very least coming up with a system that allows room for the casual poster to comment on things happening within the mock draft.

This first mock draft should be a combination of ffmd II and tcmd.  I still want to provide the forum with a full scale mock draft that allows members to trade, sign free agents of all types to include a waiver wire, erfa, rfa, ufa and udfa.  Most importantly a draft all while maintaining a top 51 salary cap.  Rather than creating "fa transaction workbooks" to manage the free agency we scale the requirements of building contracts that range up to 7 years, we make them all single year contracts   

A typical tcmd mock is one folder that is sent out to each GM privately which contains about 3 to 4 workbooks.  These workbooks allowed the GM to manage his roster and submit free agent bids, create a trade block and big board.  If we trim that down to one workbook, designed for the GM to manage while making other parts of the workbook view only, he can share these more easily.

Using this trimmed down version of tcmd could eventually turn into TCMD I, with the one we currently run becoming the full bang version where teams can submit multi-year contracts.

 

 

 

Edited by ny92mike

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