2021 vs 2022

[vegas492]

My thoughts from about a year ago concerning the 2021 Packers.

QB:  We were excellent there.  Unknown future.  But excellent in the now.

RB:  All set.  1-2 punch with Jones and Dillon.  Who cares about RB3.

TE:  Tonyan emerged, Lewis back.  Deguara ready to take a step forward.  Hope for Jace to "get it".

OL:  Strong unit, but not as strong as the prior year.  Lost a top center, replaced with a second rounder.  Hopeful that Bakh will play.  Hopeful that Jenkins will solidify a LT.  Newman is a rookie, maybe depth, maybe start.  All in all, a good group, and it could be better if Bakh plays.

WR:  Returning the best WR in the game.  MVS for deep stuff.  Hopeful that Cobb has something left.  Lazard is what he is.  Not expecting much from rookie Rodgers.  Not a lot of depth in the WR room with elite talent.

DL: Clark and Lowry are solid.  Hoping our rookie, Slayton can eat some snaps.  Lancaster is what he is.  Okay unit.

ILB:  Not expecting much out of Campbell.  Barnes could be improved.  Not a lot of depth in that room.

EDGE:  Great unit led by Z and P.  Very hopeful that Gary improves and takes the next step.  Couple young kids could grow.  Mercilus is a great add.  

CB:  Stud in Jaire.  King is back, we know what he is and is not.  Stokes is an unknown rookie.  No real "known" depth.

S: Pretty well set with Amos and Savage.

Specials:  Crosby should be fine.  Scott looks like a teenager, but he can hold.  (Then we traded for a big legged kicker.)

Coaches:  Anxiety over the new DC.  Didn't feel like the new specials coach could be any worse.

Record:  13-4.  Lost at home, after a bye, against the 49ers when the defense never allowed a touchdown.  Specials meltdown.

2022 Thoughts

QB:  We are excellent here.  Unknown for the future, except that Rodgers will be here as long as he likes.

RB:  All set.  1-2 punch with Jones and Dillon.  Who cares about RB3.

TE:  Tonyan is recovering from a knee injury.  Lewis is even older.  Deguara looked only "okay" last year with more snaps.  It's not a good group.  It can be okay, but it is not a good group.  Deguara is the key, if he improves, we are fine.  If not.....

OL:  Bakh is still hurt.  Jenkins is recovering from a bad injury.  Meyers was hurt a lot as a rookie.  Newman had more downs than ups.  Runyan was solid.  Lost Lucas Patrick.  Lost Turner.  But, drafted Rhyan and Tom to help push everyone and at least be depth.  Nijman looks more like a player than he did a year ago.  It is still a good unit that will be better if Bakh and Jenkins can play earlier.

WR:  Lost Adams and MVS.  This isn't quite a dumpster fire, but it isn't far off.  When your top three are Watkins, Cobb and Lazard, this is not a good group.  But, there is now some higher drafted guys to be developed in Watson and Doubs (I forget the 7'th rounders name), Amari appears to have lost some weight and Winfree is acting like an alpha receiver.  

DL: Wow.  Clark.  Reed. Wyatt.  Lowry.  Slaton.  Slayton.  Ford.  Hefflin.  Daaaang. 

ILB:  All Pro Campbell is back, first round pick with Walker incoming.  Barnes is a top backup.

EDGE:  Not as good as last year, but Z also didn't play much last year.  Gary could be dominating.  P is steady.  Got a couple of kids, some with experience, ready to step up.

CB:  Wow.  Jaire, locked up.  Stokes, great as a rookie, locked up.  Douglas, career revival.  Ento and Nixon have been here a little bit for depth.

S: Pretty well set with Amos and Savage.

Specials:  I'm not sure who our long snapper is.  Crosby is coming off of a horrible year.  We let go of a punter with a big leg who couldn't hold all that well.  Signed Chicago's punter and holder.  And we've invested some later round draft picks to help this unit out.

Coaches:  Optimism over the second year with Barry.  Optimism about how a true MLF offense will look without #17.  Optimistic about a new specials coach.

Record:?????

FINAL THOUGHTS:  We are weaker on offense.  Losing MVS and 'Vante really hurts.  But, that could be overcome, so long as Bakh and Jenkins can play sooner as opposed to later.  We need the young kids, Meyers, Newman, Runyan to continue to improve and we need Tom and Rhyan to push them hard.  Nijman is going to be fine.  But if that o-line is solid, I feel pretty good about our offense despite the WR's.

Defense should be the strength of this team.  With that secondary and a beefed up DL, it should eat.

Specials can't be worse, can they?

I guess I feel like this year's roster is worse than last year's roster.  But....after thinking about it, I expect our offense to be worse, defense to be better and specials to be better, so we should be better.  And with #12 under center, as long as he continues to eliminate mistakes, we are going to win a lot of games and have a chance.

What are your thoughts?

Edited June 14, 2022 by vegas492

[Brat&Beer]

I like TE a little better than you do. I buy into the optimism Packers have for Tyler Davis. His career track is very similar to Tonyan's, and he's bigger. Didn't become a Packer until late September last year, so had to learn the offense on the fly. Should have a lot more opportunities this year. I still like DeGuara, but it's put up or shut up time for him. 

I think people are overlooking Newman. He was much better the 2nd half of the season. I think benching him for the playoff game was a mistake. (Not the only mistake the coaching staff made with the offensive line for the playoff game). 

Specials might not be special, but will almost inevitably be improved. 

13-4 if Bakh and Jenkins are back to previous form.  

  

[OneTwoSixFive]

22 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

2022 Thoughts

QB:  We are excellent here.  Unknown for the future, except that Rodgers will be here as long as he likes.  1-2 years, imo.

RB:  All set.  1-2 punch with Jones and Dillon.  Who cares about RB3. I care about RB3 given the punishment RBs get through  a season

TE:  Tonyan is recovering from a knee injury.  Lewis is even older.  Deguara looked only "okay" last year with more snaps.  It's not a good group.  It can be okay, but it is not a good group.  Deguara is the key, if he improves, we are fine.  If not..... 

OL:  Bakh is still hurt.  Jenkins is recovering from a bad injury.  Meyers was hurt a lot as a rookie.  Newman had more downs than ups.  Runyan was solid.  Lost Lucas Patrick.  Lost Turner.  But, drafted Rhyan and Tom to help push everyone and at least be depth.  Nijman looks more like a player than he did a year ago.  It is still a good unit that will be better if Bakh and Jenkins can play earlier. I'm predicting Rhyan pushes Newman out as a starter. I think he is a long-term starter at guard.

WR:  Lost Adams and MVS.  This isn't quite a dumpster fire, but it isn't far off.  When your top three are Watkins, Cobb and Lazard, this is not a good group.  But, there is now some higher drafted guys to be developed in Watson and Doubs (I forget the 7'th rounders name), Amari appears to have lost some weight and Winfree is acting like an alpha receiver.  Could Lazard hold down a no.1 spot early this season ? I'm betting the one year tender will dig at him - he'll never be a Christian Watson, but he's a big strong guy and pretty reliable.

DL: Wow.  Clark.  Reed. Wyatt.  Lowry.  Slaton.  Slayton.  Ford.  Hefflin.  Daaaang. 

ILB:  All Pro Campbell is back, first round pick with Walker incoming.  Barnes is a top backup. Should be the best ILB corps for as long as I can remember

EDGE:  Not as good as last year, but Z also didn't play much last year.  Gary could be dominating.  P is steady.  Got a couple of kids, some with experience, ready to step up.

CB:  Wow.  Jaire, locked up.  Stokes, great as a rookie, locked up.  Douglas, career revival.  Ento and Nixon have been here a little bit for depth. Go Rico Gafford too, as a gunner mostly. 4.22 speed is always good - that's super-elite.

S: Pretty well set with Amos and Savage. Thin though, very thin, like at edge. At least having another very talented ILB gives more scheme options, if injuries hit.

Specials:  I'm not sure who our long snapper is.  Crosby is coming off of a horrible year.  We let go of a punter with a big leg who couldn't hold all that well.  Signed Chicago's punter and holder.  And we've invested some later round draft picks to help this unit out.

Coaches:  Optimism over the second year with Barry.  Optimism about how a true MLF offense will look without #17.  Optimistic about a new specials coach. One question though - will Stenavich be able to have the creative gameplans that Hackett produced.

Record:?????  12-5 is my guess........and Divisional champions. More than that - who knows.

 

[TheEagle]

4 minutes ago, Brat&Beer said:

I like TE a little better than you do. I buy into the optimism Packers have for Tyler Davis. His career track is very similar to Tonyan's, and he's bigger. Didn't become a Packer until late September last year, so had to learn the offense on the fly. Should have a lot more opportunities this year. I still like DeGuara, but it's put up or shut up time for him. 

I think people are overlooking Newman. He was much better the 2nd half of the season. I think benching him for the playoff game was a mistake. (Not the only mistake the coaching staff made with the offensive line for the playoff game). 

Specials might not be special, but will almost inevitably be improved. 

13-4 if Bakh and Jenkins are back to previous form.  

  

I agree with you on Davis, Deguara, and Newman—although I think one of the rookies could beat out Newman.

[TheEagle]

When did you write last year’s take? It’s weird because you say great EDGE starters in Z and P, so it sounds like it was written before the year, but then you say Mercilus was a great add. He wasn’t added until midseason, and by then Z was done.

[Gopackgonerd]

The biggest loss is Adams and MVS so WR is pretty much an unknown with somewhat new group forming.

Depth at Saftey and EDGE is lacking.

TE depends on how good Tonyan is after his ACL, Deguara and Davis are dark horses, seems like the org loves Davis so that's interesting. 

Feel like we're going to lean heavily on the run game and playaction this season and the defense will take care of the rest. 

Only place I really don't feel great about is if we have to get into a shootout, can we really keep up with a solid offense with our WRs? I'm confident our defense can stop a shootout and Aaron will find a way, but without Adams it's going to be more difficult.

I'm hoping Watson and Doubs make their presence known during the season which will boost the offense.

Amari emerging as the number 1 slot would be nice. As much as I like Cobbs connection with Rodgers, he's on his last legs.

If Bakh and Jenkins comes back and is still in form I think this offense will still be a power house. 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Gopackgonerd

[vegas492]

36 minutes ago, Brat&Beer said:

I like TE a little better than you do. I buy into the optimism Packers have for Tyler Davis. His career track is very similar to Tonyan's, and he's bigger. Didn't become a Packer until late September last year, so had to learn the offense on the fly. Should have a lot more opportunities this year. I still like DeGuara, but it's put up or shut up time for him. 

I think people are overlooking Newman. He was much better the 2nd half of the season. I think benching him for the playoff game was a mistake. (Not the only mistake the coaching staff made with the offensive line for the playoff game). 

Specials might not be special, but will almost inevitably be improved. 

13-4 if Bakh and Jenkins are back to previous form.  

  

I think Tyler Davis has a chance to be a good player.  I didn't mention him, because I always want to call him Ryan Clark for some reason.  I don't know why.  I'm old.  Get off my lawn.

I thought Newman was a poor to below average guard last year.  I think he can be average this year.  And that Rhyan can be above average.  Competition will be good for the OL.  I too really like Rhyan's potential.  I could see him at RT as well.

[vegas492]

34 minutes ago, TheEagle said:

When did you write last year’s take? It’s weird because you say great EDGE starters in Z and P, so it sounds like it was written before the year, but then you say Mercilus was a great add. He wasn’t added until midseason, and by then Z was done.

Oh, it wasn't written out like this one.  This was just written, from how I felt about the club last year versus this year.  I wanted to try to keep it "apples to apples".

Douglas was another one in that boat.  Didn't know who he was at this time last year.  Campbell, too.

I originally thought that after I wrote this, I'd figure this to be a lesser version of the Packers.  Came away thinking it could be a better version, though clearly lacking some offensive stuff.  But I feel like defense and specials can make up for it.  As will #12.

[vegas492]

34 minutes ago, Gopackgonerd said:

The biggest loss is Adams and MVS so WR is pretty much an unknown with somewhat new group forming.

Depth at Saftey and EDGE is lacking.

TE depends on how good Tonyan is after his ACL, Deguara and Davis are dark horses, seems like the org loves Davis so that's interesting. 

Feel like we're going to lean heavily on the run game and playaction this season and the defense will take care of the rest. 

Only place I really don't feel great about is if we have to get into a shootout, can we really keep up with a solid offense with our WRs? I'm confident our defense can stop a shootout and Aaron will find a way, but without Adams it's going to be more difficult.

I'm hoping Watson and Doubs make their presence known during the season which will boost the offense.

Amari emerging as the number 1 slot would be nice. As much as I like Cobbs connection with Rodgers, he's on his last legs.

If Bakh and Jenkins comes back and is still in form I think this offense will still be a power house. 

 

I feel like this is a mid road offensive unit.  Better in the run than pass game.  And that could all change if we figure out how to use Watson.

Defensively, this should be a top 7 unit.  And I really feel like we have the talent to be top 5.

[Brat&Beer]

I don't think they'll miss MVS that much because Watson, if nothing else, can fill that role. The big question is whether with Adams not drawing the opponent's attention, do the Packers have WR's who can create separation? It's a hard question to answer because I suspect MLF will scheme to get guys open more than he did in the past with Adams. The success the Packers had in games the last 3 years when Adams didn't play does seem to justify some optimism, but it might be a work in progress for a while.       

[packfanfb]

2022 Thoughts

QB:  We are excellent here.  Unknown for the future, except that Rodgers will be here as long as he likes. We have 12 so we're fine. We'll ride him through the regular season per usual and then have to hope he doesn't play poorly in the playoffs. 

RB:  All set.  1-2 punch with Jones and Dillon.  Who cares about RB3. Really good 1-2. Need Hill to come back healthy because I think he's the real deal compared to Taylor who is a JAG. 

TE:  Tonyan is recovering from a knee injury.  Lewis is even older.  Deguara looked only "okay" last year with more snaps.  It's not a good group.  It can be okay, but it is not a good group.  Deguara is the key, if he improves, we are fine.  If not..... Without Tonyan this is a weak unit, plain and simple. Deguara is best as a H-back player. Lewis can't run and everyone is salivating over Tyler Davis when the guy has like 5 regular season catches. He's a nice story, but he'll need to actually get on the field and prove it. We need Tonyan back, but honestly this unit could use an upgrade even though that's unlikely to happen. 

OL:  Bakh is still hurt.  Jenkins is recovering from a bad injury.  Meyers was hurt a lot as a rookie.  Newman had more downs than ups.  Runyan was solid.  Lost Lucas Patrick.  Lost Turner.  But, drafted Rhyan and Tom to help push everyone and at least be depth.  Nijman looks more like a player than he did a year ago.  It is still a good unit that will be better if Bakh and Jenkins can play earlier. Unit depends on two things: Bak's health and Jenkins' ability to come back after 6 weeks. Injuries to the OL have arguably been one of (if not The) biggest reasons why this team didn't go to back-to-back SBs. The Bak injury killed us and his inability to recover from it has hurt even worse. Hopefully Jenkins has an easier recovery. Our interior OL should be fine but letting Turner go with the questions we have right now at OT is by far the most puzzling decision of the off-season so far for me. 

WR:  Lost Adams and MVS.  This isn't quite a dumpster fire, but it isn't far off.  When your top three are Watkins, Cobb and Lazard, this is not a good group.  But, there is now some higher drafted guys to be developed in Watson and Doubs (I forget the 7'th rounders name), Amari appears to have lost some weight and Winfree is acting like an alpha receiver. This unit is what it is. An over-the-hill slot WR, a guy who's best attribute is blocking, and another vet who has trouble staying healthy and is looking to revitalize his descending career. Beyond that, it's a bunch of rookies and guys who aren't good enough to stay on a 53. It's a bottom 10, maybe bottom 5 unit on paper. Hopefully they can become more than that once the real action starts, especially with 12 at QB. If Watkins can stay healthy and Watson can grow in the offense faster than expected, that'll help. 

DL: Wow.  Clark.  Reed. Wyatt.  Lowry.  Slaton.  Slayton.  Ford.  Hefflin.  Daaaang. Best DL I can remember us having, especially from a pass rush standpoint. 

ILB:  All Pro Campbell is back, first round pick with Walker incoming.  Barnes is a top backup. Hopefully Campbell picks up where he left off and Walker is the real deal, at least in terms of being an athlete on the field. Barnes isn't bad against the run so we have a solid No. 3 there. Overall, should be a good unit especially with Barry at DC. 

EDGE:  Not as good as last year, but Z also didn't play much last year.  Gary could be dominating.  P is steady.  Got a couple of kids, some with experience, ready to step up. Two top players, but a lot of uncertainty after that. Really need Garvin to ascend or Ramsey to surprise coming off injury. Maybe Enagbare can contribute as a rookie. This is one position where the Packers should still be active between now and the regular season to add a No. 3 guy if the right fit is there. 

CB:  Wow.  Jaire, locked up.  Stokes, great as a rookie, locked up.  Douglas, career revival.  Ento and Nixon have been here a little bit for depth. Probably the best trio of CBs in the game. Health will be key. Not a lot of depth after those 3. Nixon could be key as a slot guy. 

S: Pretty well set with Amos and Savage. Same as CB. Good starters, more uncertainty after that. Davis seems to be the favorite for the No. 3 spot right now. 

[TheEagle]

I have much the same feeling about Davis as I did Tonyan before he broke out. Tonyan had 14 career catches before his breakout season. They have decent size, good athleticism, and look like natural hands catchers. I have high hopes for him. Then again, he could be like Sternberger--who would occasionally give you hope he'd turn into something. It's not a given that Tonyan will start the year on the PUP. Everybody recovery timeline differs. As long as he's healthy, I think the TE group will be good enough. If Davis does turn into a Tonyan clone, then it has a chance to be a plus unit.

[Donzo]

5 hours ago, vegas492 said:

 

OL:  Strong unit, but not as strong as the prior year.  Lost a top center, replaced with a second rounder.  Hopeful that Bakh will play.  Hopeful that Jenkins will solidify a LT.  Newman is a rookie, maybe depth, maybe start.  All in all, a good group, and it could be better if Bakh plays.

Nice thread and post!

The biggest disagreement I have is I don't think the 2021 OL was a strong unit. Especially so after Jenkins injury. Thinking it'll be much better this year. Not 2020 good/great, but considerably better than last year.

 

[Donzo]

3 hours ago, packfanfb said:

 

TE:  Tonyan is recovering from a knee injury.  Lewis is even older.  Deguara looked only "okay" last year with more snaps.  It's not a good group.  It can be okay, but it is not a good group.  Deguara is the key, if he improves, we are fine.  If not..... Without Tonyan this is a weak unit, plain and simple. Deguara is best as a H-back player. Lewis can't run and everyone is salivating over Tyler Davis when the guy has like 5 regular season catches. He's a nice story, but he'll need to actually get on the field and prove it. We need Tonyan back, but honestly this unit could use an upgrade even though that's unlikely to happen. 

OL:  Bakh is still hurt.  Jenkins is recovering from a bad injury.  Meyers was hurt a lot as a rookie.  Newman had more downs than ups.  Runyan was solid.  Lost Lucas Patrick.  Lost Turner.  But, drafted Rhyan and Tom to help push everyone and at least be depth.  Nijman looks more like a player than he did a year ago.  It is still a good unit that will be better if Bakh and Jenkins can play earlier. Unit depends on two things: Bak's health and Jenkins' ability to come back after 6 weeks. Injuries to the OL have arguably been one of (if not The) biggest reasons why this team didn't go to back-to-back SBs. The Bak injury killed us and his inability to recover from it has hurt even worse. Hopefully Jenkins has an easier recovery. Our interior OL should be fine but letting Turner go with the questions we have right now at OT is by far the most puzzling decision of the off-season so far for me. 

Excellent comments. I'll limit my response to TE and OL.

I was really disheartened with the Tonyan less TE room after the 9ers loss. They were almost as bad as the special teams in that game. Considering they didn't add another player to the room you'd think I'd ne worried about the TEs, but I'm not. Tonyan will be back, the guys are better than they showed in the 9ers loss (just bad time to have a poor day) and I'm drinking the Davis cool aid the organization and bloggers are serving.

Injuries really hurt the OL last year. I'm feeling much better about the depth this year. We know about Runyan, Nijman, Newman, Myers and the rookies. But two other guys getting as much pub as Davis for development are Hanson and CVL. I understand the improvement (much bigger/stronger, had usage, balance/knee bending and snapping efficiency) from Hanson has been amazing. He gone from a guy that didn't look like he belonged on the 90-man summer roster in 2020 to getting 1st team reps at center and RG in OTAs. It appears CVL has made that 2nd year jump at both RG and RT. Some reports says he's been the best RT in OTAs. I remember in 2019 the talk with Badger fans was CVL would be a high draft pick. He was a 1st team all B10 at LT... All very encouraging. We'll see how it plays out.

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Donzo

[vegas492]

I really hope I get to see an o-line that has these three guys in it at the same time.  Bakh.  Jenkins.  Nijman.