Official 2023 QB Thread

[jebrick]

9 hours ago, buno67 said:

Feel like Notre Dame's defense threw some curve balls at him and Day and it threw them for a loop, so he didnt look that flawless in that game, also didnt help he was missing his top2 WRs really IMO. Watching that Wisky game last night, Wisky tried to emulate what Notre Dame did at times, and this time Stround and the play design absolutely killed it. Like it felt like Wisky playeds that two high safety look to keep things infront and not let the WRs beat them but make stroud beat them. CJ was dropping dimes into the zone pockets all night

I am looking more at his skills and how they translate into the NFL game.  Even in the ND, he was able to throw out routes to Wr that were covered to places only the Wr could ( and did) catch them.  He is able to throw into those tight windows and does not need to see his receiver is open before he throws it.  Does it help that he has Ryan Day?  Sure, but ignoring how he throws to wide open receivers and look to how he makes throws to receivers that are covered is the proof in the pudding ( as it were).

[MSURacerDT55]

3 hours ago, jebrick said:

I am looking more at his skills and how they translate into the NFL game.  Even in the ND, he was able to throw out routes to Wr that were covered to places only the Wr could ( and did) catch them.  He is able to throw into those tight windows and does not need to see his receiver is open before he throws it.  Does it help that he has Ryan Day?  Sure, but ignoring how he throws to wide open receivers and look to how he makes throws to receivers that are covered is the proof in the pudding ( as it were).

I'm a huge Stroud fan but he absolutely would not be where he is without his tutelage, you can tell by how he looks at coverages and his anticipation they spend hours upon hours watching film. I would love to see him against UGA right now, by the end of the year he might be a real problem for any defense.

[jebrick]

13 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I'm a huge Stroud fan but he absolutely would not be where he is without his tutelage, you can tell by how he looks at coverages and his anticipation they spend hours upon hours watching film. I would love to see him against UGA right now, by the end of the year he might be a real problem for any defense.

I am speaking more of the play designs (in regard to Day) which are NFL worthy but yes, Stroud is the most NFL ready of the QBs ( even though that seems to be a bad thing in some people's eyes).

Edited September 26, 2022 by jebrick

[vikes635]

On 9/24/2022 at 4:22 PM, jebrick said:

Stroud is the best pure passer I have seen in college in a while.  He has the accuracy to throw receivers open.

I agree with Strouds accuracy but does he have the mobility and athleticism to avoid the rush. I'm not huge on the Mac Jones style QB. You think he's a better prospect in terms of pure passer than Luck? Lawrence? Goff? I'll definitely tune in to few more games of his either way, thanks for the input.

[BetterCallSaul]

12 minutes ago, vikes635 said:

I agree with Strouds accuracy but does he have the mobility and athleticism to avoid the rush. I'm not huge on the Mac Jones style QB. You think he's a better prospect in terms of pure passer than Luck? Lawrence? Goff? I'll definitely tune in to few more games of his either way, thanks for the input.

He's athletic enough. He isn't Mac Jones standing back there, but to say he's fast would be inaccurate. Tyler Van Dyke (who has been terrible this year) was more of your traditional pocket passing statue. Stroud can get out and make throws on the move, but you certainly won't be seeing any designed runs for him. I think that's totally fine.

[jebrick]

1 minute ago, vikes635 said:

I agree with Strouds accuracy but does he have the mobility and athleticism to avoid the rush. I'm not huge on the Mac Jones style QB. You think he's a better prospect in terms of pure passer than Luck? Lawrence? Goff? I'll definitely tune in to few more games of his either way, thanks for the input.

He moves just fine in the pocket.  He says he just does not need to run.  It does not mean he can't.

I will admit I did not see much of Luck in College due to being in the East coast time.  I never considered Lawrence a pure passer.  He has talent but his main ability is to make plays with his legs.  I never remember him sticking a ball in a tight window on a receiver who is (NFL) covered.  Not saying he did not do it, I just do not remember it or it never stood out to me.

Stroud's accuracy reminded me of Russel Wilson in his season at Wisconsin.  I remember watching Wilson in the Rose Bowl game making throws to Nick Toon when Toon was blanketed.  Those things stand out to me for college QBs to make it in the NFL.

Teams will have to decide what they want in a QB.  Many might say that Young or Richardson has more upside and rate them higher.  In the end, in the NFL, you need to make passes from the pocket.  You need the arm that can zip throws to the sidelines and accuracy to stick it in a 1' window.  Stroud has shown all of that.

[vikes635]

On 9/25/2022 at 8:27 AM, Rich7sena said:

Bo Nix has to be in here.

Ok I kind of wrote him off but looking at this years stats looks like he is passing for more yards and TD's per game. I'll tune into the Stanford game this weekend and take some notes

[vikes635]

28 minutes ago, jebrick said:

He moves just fine in the pocket.  He says he just does not need to run.  It does not mean he can't.

I will admit I did not see much of Luck in College due to being in the East coast time.  I never considered Lawrence a pure passer.  He has talent but his main ability is to make plays with his legs.  I never remember him sticking a ball in a tight window on a receiver who is (NFL) covered.  Not saying he did not do it, I just do not remember it or it never stood out to me.

Stroud's accuracy reminded me of Russel Wilson in his season at Wisconsin.  I remember watching Wilson in the Rose Bowl game making throws to Nick Toon when Toon was blanketed.  Those things stand out to me for college QBs to make it in the NFL.

Teams will have to decide what they want in a QB.  Many might say that Young or Richardson has more upside and rate them higher.  In the end, in the NFL, you need to make passes from the pocket.  You need the arm that can zip throws to the sidelines and accuracy to stick it in a 1' window.  Stroud has shown all of that.

very nice reply's thank you. I whiffed completely on Wilson's talent but a I do remember that Rose Bowl game. I actually was pretty impressed with Toon and Abbrederious ( sure that is spelt wrong but can't remember). Looking forward to more of your feed back later on.

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, vikes635 said:

I agree with Strouds accuracy but does he have the mobility and athleticism to avoid the rush. I'm not huge on the Mac Jones style QB. You think he's a better prospect in terms of pure passer than Luck? Lawrence? Goff? I'll definitely tune in to few more games of his either way, thanks for the input.

He's definitely not Mac Jones.  He just isn't Justin Fields.  There's nothing concerning about his athleticism, and nothing really makes you think he's going to be a statue back there.  No, I wouldn't say he's better than Andrew Luck or Trevor Lawrence who were viewed as generational prospects.  I'd say he's probably going to be viewed higher than Jared Goff was coming out of Cal.  Feels like a Matthew Stafford-level of franchise QB prospect.

[BetterCallSaul]

On 9/25/2022 at 6:55 PM, Ozzy said:

If the dude play action passes, rolls out, how you going to stop it?  He can take off easily and gain yards or he can throw it extremely well on the move and if he gets pressure he is big and strong enough to keep the play alive and either run it or throw it. 

Generally speaking, what teams would be smart to do is blitz his strong side and force him weak. It completely cripples some mobile QB's. I haven't seen enough of Richardson to say how he performs in the pocket, but as a pretty successful DC in HS, that's what we do to stop PA Boot Flood concepts. The Panthers and Buccaneers would always do this against Michael Vick too. It's a very legitimate strategy to keep those guys pinned in.

[Ozzy]

6 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Generally speaking, what teams would be smart to do is blitz his strong side and force him weak. It completely cripples some mobile QB's. I haven't seen enough of Richardson to say how he performs in the pocket, but as a pretty successful DC in HS, that's what we do to stop PA Boot Flood concepts. The Panthers and Buccaneers would always do this against Michael Vick too. It's a very legitimate strategy to keep those guys pinned in.

Possibly but there is also the chance that the blitz is going to open up and easy receiving option or he would just take off and run for 5-10 yards on his weak side which only relates to what arm he throws with.

Sure there are ways but the kid can sling it and with continued improvement teams will have a hard time passing on him.  Say he is there when Seattle picks, I think they would really struggle to not take him assuming Stroud and Young are both picked but Richardson physically is bigger faster and stronger than most Stroud and Young and some teams will love that.

Either way his play against Tennessee on the road was a hell of a lot better than his previous games at home during the nighttime.  

[Danger]

23 hours ago, jebrick said:

I never considered Lawrence a pure passer.  He has talent but his main ability is to make plays with his legs.  I never remember him sticking a ball in a tight window on a receiver who is (NFL) covered.  Not saying he did not do it, I just do not remember it or it never stood out to me.

Definitely watch his national championship game against bama. Because he made good throws there for sure.

[Steins Gate]

First of all, let me say that I am far from a QB expert. And I will go as far as to say that drafting wise, I would have been pretty bad at choosing them. This is how I would have ranked each top QB since the 2017 draft.

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2017: Watson (1st round), Mahomes (2nd round), Trubisky (2nd round)

2018: Darnold (1st round), Baker Mayfield (1st round), Josh Rosen (2nd round), Josh Allen (3rd or 4th round round), Lamar Jackson (5th round to undrafted)

2019: Daniel Jones (late 1st round), Dwayne Haskins (late 1st round), Kyler Murray (2nd round)

2020: Joe Burrow (1st overall), Tua (1st round), Jordan love (2nd round), Justin Herbert (3rd or 4th round), Jalen Hurts (5th round to Undrafted)

2021: Trevor Lawrence (1st overall), Justin Fields (1st round), Zach Wilson (1st round), Trey Lance (late 1st round), Mack Jones (2nd round)

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Obviously, the jury is still out on the 2021 class. My method of evaluation is a combination of two things. 1) How each prospect would fit into the NFL mold. And 2) What I think their ceiling would be based on known information.

Considering where they were actually drafted, I would've passed on future stars: Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Justin Herbert, and Jalen Hurts.

Mahomes had the basic foundation to be a good NFL QB coming out. But since he played in a gimmicky offense, I figured he would take longer to learn the position at the NFL level.

Josh Allen was horribly inaccurate coming out. I honestly didn't think he would make it. But I would've taken a chance on him by the 4th round due to his tools.

Lamar Jackson was inaccurate too and ran a little too much for my liking. Didn't think he would make it either. Worth a late round flier.

Justin Herbert had the basic foundation like Mahomes, but there were reports of him lacking intangibles and being an introvert. That dropped him big time in my view.

Jalen Hurts needed serious work on his passing skills. His accuracy was only serviceable though. Ran a little too much for my liking. What I liked about him was his reported leadership and intangibles. Was worth a late round flier.

Mahomes and Herbert are toolsy guys with good foundations.

The common threads with Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Jalen Hurts is the desire to silence their doubters through hard work. Also, they were drafted to organizations that were willing to be patient with their development.

In the future, I am going to have to adjust my method of evaluations. Conventional wisdom hasn't worked as well lately.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Steins Gate

[beekay414]

Brennan Armstrong - Terrible accuracy, crap arm, non-prospect
Dillon Gabriel - Gamer but NFL upside is capped. Think he has a nice long career as a back-up and adequate fill-in starter
Jake Haener - Love this kid but he's too small and doesn't have the arm upside to make up for it, NFL back-up
Jaren Hall - Do not see it at all, probably a day 3 prospect with back-up upside
Sam Hartman - Doesn't really have the arm to make every NFL throw, system does him massive favors, NFL back-up upside
Hendon Hooker - Pure college QB
Phil Jurkovec - Back-up upside, late day 3, UDFA 
Devin Leary - Day 2 guy right now but may be able to sneak into day 1, think he's a holdover guy rather than a guy you give the keys to
Will Levis - Day 2 prospect, decent stats but inconsistent performance, toolbox is there but not sure he's a franchise guy
Grayson McCall - Intriguing but competition level concerns me. Draft process will make or break him as a potential day 1 guy
Tanner McKee - Has size and tools but there's nothing else there, UDFA if he comes out
Graham Mertz - Made strides and looks like he's got an NFL future, return to school barring big finish to season
Aidan O'Connell - Butt water, non-prospect
Spencer Rattler - Question his ability to process as tools are there, day 3 guy.
Anthony Richardson - All tools, no tool box, undraftable
CJ Stroud - Best QB in the class, #1 overall pick
Tyler Van Dyke - Day 3 at best, needs to return to school
Cam Ward - Needs to return to school. Another season at the FBS level will do wonders for his processing. Day 1 ability but needs time.
Bryce Young - Small but comfortably my #2 QB, top 10 pick

Could do more but you get the point. The only potential day 1 guys in this class are Stroud, Young, Levis, McCall and Leary.

Edited September 30, 2022 by beekay414

[Ozzy]

15 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Brennan Armstrong - Terrible accuracy, crap arm, non-prospect
Dillon Gabriel - Gamer but NFL upside is capped. Think he has a nice long career as a back-up and adequate fill-in starter
Jake Haener - Love this kid but he's too small and doesn't have the arm upside to make up for it, NFL back-up
Jaren Hall - Do not see it at all, probably a day 3 prospect with back-up upside
Sam Hartman - Doesn't really have the arm to make every NFL throw, system does him massive favors, NFL back-up upside
Hendon Hooker - Pure college QB
Phil Jurkovec - Back-up upside, late day 3, UDFA 
Devin Leary - Day 2 guy right now but may be able to sneak into day 1, think he's a holdover guy rather than a guy you give the keys to
Will Levis - Day 2 prospect, decent stats but inconsistent performance, toolbox is there but not sure he's a franchise guy
Grayson McCall - Intriguing but competition level concerns me. Draft process will make or break him as a potential day 1 guy
Tanner McKee - Has size and tools but there's nothing else there, UDFA if he comes out
Graham Mertz - Made strides and looks like he's got an NFL future, return to school barring big finish to season
Aidan O'Connell - Butt water, non-prospect
Spencer Rattler - Question his ability to process as tools are there, day 3 guy.
Anthony Richardson - All tools, no tool box, undraftable
CJ Stroud - Best QB in the class, #1 overall pick
Tyler Van Dyke - Day 3 at best, needs to return to school
Cam Ward - Needs to return to school. Another season at the FBS level will do wonders for his processing. Day 1 ability but needs time.
Bryce Young - Small but comfortably my #2 QB, top 10 pick

Could do more but you get the point. The only potential day 1 guys in this class are Stroud, Young, Levis, McCall and Leary.

What are you looking at?  Graham freaking Mertz has a NFL future and Anthony Richardson is "undraftable" after starting four games in his college football career?  What the hell? You a freaking nuts if you believe that one.  Much less thinking Jaren Hall is some day 3 prospect?  That dude can sling the football and has elite level arm talent.  Sure still a work in progress but day 3 prospect when he is one of the most talented passers in the country?  

 

 

So DJ Uiagalelei, Bo Nix, Michael Penix Jr, Kedon Slovis and Taulia Tagovailoa are not even QB prospects then?  Sure DJ has had his struggles but last week really showed some things and at times Nix has been lights out and Penix has been one of the most improved and impressive QBs this season with his play.

 

Still a long ways to go but yeah it is a loaded class in terms of numbers but sure only a few top end talents, but many of these guys have NFL ability but with so many, there are only so many roster spots so most will not make a NFL team or possibly not even a practice squad.