UPDATED: Future Head Coaching Options Discussion

[yomyyo]

3 hours ago, topwop1 said:

I think the more likely NE head coaching candidate is Matt Patricia.  Dude is an actual rocket scientist and IMO has way more potential than McDaniels ever will.

It was a rough start to the year for the Patriots on defense but when you look at how many injuries they've had and how well they've adapted you can't not be impressed with what he's done there.

I'd love for Patricia to be on the short list. He was an O-lineman, and started his NE stint as an offensive coach. I understand that we all want to pair Trubisky with an offensive play-caller, but I have a good feeling about Patricia. His demeanor would be perfect fit for the city and the organization. 

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, G08 said:

I think a lot of these OC/QB coach potential coaches have their flaws (inexperienced, lack of play calling etc).

 

I don't know what's with me today, but Josh McDaniels is making a ton of sense to me... probably the closest thing Pace can get to his Sean Payton.

The rapid progression of the young QBs is what put them ahead of McDaniels for me. He is the next on my list though, and may make the jump again.

[G08]

I'm starting to think McDaniels is the best man for the job... sounds like his failures have humbled him, but nobody can deny his play-calling and in-game adjustments as a coordinator. Pairing him with McCoy would give him a familiar voice and someone else with head coaching experience. Curious what he would want to do defensively... but if you want to follow that New Orleans blueprint with Sean Payton... McDaniels IMO is the best fit.

I've heard multiple times that he would want a say in/control over personnel, and if I'm not mistaken he didn't interview in SF because he wanted to hire the GM. That will be interesting to follow/monitor.

What other choices does he have if he wants a gig this year? 

Cleveland is a ****-show and I'm not convinced Jackson is gone.
San Francisco is committed to Shanahan.
NY Giants perhaps if McAdoo is whacked... still they have no QB (Eli is old)
Denver seems committed to Vance, and Elway isn't giving up any control
Indy could be a fit, but would Ballard want to give up final say?

etc.

[WindyCity]

Some common threads with Reich Offenses

1. Size at WR

-Eagles WRs, 6'3", 6'4", 6', 6', 6'1"
-Chargers WRs, 6'2", 6'2", 6'5", 6'3"

2. Slot WR

-Nelson Algolor is having care year
-Eddie Royal and Dontrelle Inman thrived in the slot

3. Heavy TE passing

4. Pulling the OT

-The Eagles pull OTs a ton and require some athletic OTs

5. Vertical Passing

-Both Philadelphia and SD move the ball vertically on the perimeter.

[topwop1]

15 hours ago, G08 said:

I'm starting to think McDaniels is the best man for the job... sounds like his failures have humbled him, but nobody can deny his play-calling and in-game adjustments as a coordinator. Pairing him with McCoy would give him a familiar voice and someone else with head coaching experience. Curious what he would want to do defensively... but if you want to follow that New Orleans blueprint with Sean Payton... McDaniels IMO is the best fit.

I've heard multiple times that he would want a say in/control over personnel, and if I'm not mistaken he didn't interview in SF because he wanted to hire the GM. That will be interesting to follow/monitor.

What other choices does he have if he wants a gig this year? 

Cleveland is a ****-show and I'm not convinced Jackson is gone.
San Francisco is committed to Shanahan.
NY Giants perhaps if McAdoo is whacked... still they have no QB (Eli is old)
Denver seems committed to Vance, and Elway isn't giving up any control
Indy could be a fit, but would Ballard want to give up final say?

etc.

NYG seems like his best bet since both Reese and McAdoo are likely out after this year.  They will have a high pick and a shot at one of the top QB prospects in this year's draft.

Pace is firmly entrenched in his role as GM here at least for another 2 years.  They just announced that massive restructure project at Halas Hall and he seems to be heavily involved in that.  

Bottom line is Pace isn;t going anywhere anytime soon and McDaniels and Pace don;t seem like a good match.  Highly doubt this would ever happen.

[IronMike84]

It seems like there's a lot of confusion on the "personnel control" aspect in regards to McDaniels.

If he expects the kind of power he had in Denver, no team is going to grant that power. Even if he succeeds Belichick in New England, I don't know that he'd get that level of power.

It's not at all uncommon for head coaches to have control of the 53. Top guys like Carroll and Payton have it, and I think even some recent hires like Gase and Quinn have it.

My understanding is that Pace has total control of the 53, and I think it's really important to ask if that has contributed to Fox's struggles, as well as if that approach is going to get him the best head coaching candidates moving forward.

[Sugashane]

Looking at the Eagles, they do an amazing job of making things simple for Wentz. They put Ertz at the X or Z quite a few times to tip him off if the defense is in man or zone coverage. If a safety splits out on him, it is almost always man, if a CB stays there, it is likely zone.

 

He is getting damn good at using hard counts. He has been able to get a lot of people to jump, but also to tip him off on blitzers, press coverage, etc when he can. Of course Wentz has the athletic traits and arm talent, but the level of coaching up from last year to this is just amazing.

Especially on 3rd down. 5-6 weeks in he was 1st on a ton of 3rd down passing categories, which of course is the money down, where QBs prove their worth and show if they are elite. Not just stat padding late in the 4th.

[G08]

On 11/24/2017 at 8:32 PM, IronMike84 said:

It seems like there's a lot of confusion on the "personnel control" aspect in regards to McDaniels.

If he expects the kind of power he had in Denver, no team is going to grant that power. Even if he succeeds Belichick in New England, I don't know that he'd get that level of power.

It's not at all uncommon for head coaches to have control of the 53. Top guys like Carroll and Payton have it, and I think even some recent hires like Gase and Quinn have it.

My understanding is that Pace has total control of the 53, and I think it's really important to ask if that has contributed to Fox's struggles, as well as if that approach is going to get him the best head coaching candidates moving forward.

I think he's the best offensive mind out there and really having cut-ups of Tom Brady for Mitch Trubisky to learn from is aces.

I have read that he would want to hire his own GM, but he has to realize he has no clout to sit and demand things. Reading about how he has grown and changed from the disaster that was Denver, I think the guy has learned quite a bit. Plus, Pace is a consensus builder... I don't think he would force players on a head coach, especially if the head coach doesn't want them.

Do what's best for Mitch... I think that's McDaniels. Closest thing to Sean Payton that Pace is going to find, IMO.

[Rogerthat]

9 minutes ago, G08 said:

I think he's the best offensive mind out there and really having cut-ups of Tom Brady for Mitch Trubisky to learn from is aces.

I have read that he would want to hire his own GM, but he has to realize he has no clout to sit and demand things. Reading about how he has grown and changed from the disaster that was Denver, I think the guy has learned quite a bit. Plus, Pace is a consensus builder... I don't think he would force players on a head coach, especially if the head coach doesn't want them.

Do what's best for Mitch... I think that's McDaniels. Closest thing to Sean Payton that Pace is going to find, IMO.

I still can't get over the Tebow pick.  If he was such a genius he would have realized he can't throw.  As for the Tom Brady line of thought, Tom Brady deserves the credit for Tom Brady not Josh McDaniels.  If anything McDaniels should thank Brady for getting him not one but two head coaching jobs. 

I would rather have a Carmichael who is more then qualified and he won't be butting heads with the GM over control. 

[G08]

1 minute ago, Rogerthat said:

I still can't get over the Tebow pick.  If he was such a genius he would have realized he can't throw.  As for the Tom Brady line of thought, Tom Brady deserves the credit for Tom Brady not Josh McDaniels.  If anything McDaniels should thank Brady for getting him not one but two head coaching jobs. 

I would rather have a Carmichael who is more then qualified and he won't be butting heads with the GM over control. 

The Tebow pick was stupid, it's a big part of why he doesn't deserve to ask for the ability to hire/supersede the GM.

As for his work... I heard former Bear DJ Williams say that he was never more prepared for a football game, ever, than when Josh McDaniels was head coach. He said the issue was that everything was way too rigid and structured and McDaniels had no idea how to relate to his players, especially when they weren't playing up to par.

Makes sense for a brash 33 year old in over his head... I would bring him in and gauge how he has grown/changed (if at all). Dan Pompei wrote a solid piece on him a little while back, seems like the dude has grown quite a bit spiritually and professionally. 

[Rogerthat]

1 minute ago, G08 said:

The Tebow pick was stupid, it's a big part of why he doesn't deserve to ask for the ability to hire/supersede the GM.

As for his work... I heard former Bear DJ Williams say that he was never more prepared for a football game, ever, than when Josh McDaniels was head coach. He said the issue was that everything was way too rigid and structured and McDaniels had no idea how to relate to his players, especially when they weren't playing up to par.

Makes sense for a brash 33 year old in over his head... I would bring him in and gauge how he has grown/changed (if at all). Dan Pompei wrote a solid piece on him a little while back, seems like the dude has grown quite a bit spiritually and professionally. 

I get your argument and its convincing. Even if he came to the bear took them to the super bowl and won I would still be saying "I can't get over the Tebow pick"

[G08]

1 minute ago, Rogerthat said:

I get your argument and its convincing. Even if he came to the bear took them to the super bowl and won I would still be saying "I can't get over the Tebow pick"

touche, man

[G08]

This is what I'm talking about when I say McDaniels would be solid here:

 

http://www.patriots.com/video/2017/09/27/belichick-breakdown-key-plays-victory-over-texans

[IronMike84]

What’s up with the misconception that McDaniels was the Broncos GM? He wasn’t. Brian Xanders was the GM from 2009 until just after the 2012 draft. Xanders has some bad picks, but he also had a bunch of picks that were cornerstones of the team’s success since.

Just like it’s not uncommon for a head coach to have power over the 53, it’s also not uncommon for coaches to have a say in the draft. A really cool example I heard on Sirius NFL Radio was that Seattle was going to take Andy Dalton at #25 in the 2011 Draft. They had done a ton of work on him, and when Seattle was on the clock, Pete Carroll and some of the coaches got cold feet, and John Schneider backed off. They took James Carpenter instead.

[Heinz D.]

3 hours ago, IronMike84 said:

What’s up with the misconception that McDaniels was the Broncos GM? He wasn’t. Brian Xanders was the GM from 2009 until just after the 2012 draft. Xanders has some bad picks, but he also had a bunch of picks that were cornerstones of the team’s success since.

I'm not sure anybody (here, at least) is putting forth that McDaniels was essentially the GM, but pretty much everybody and their brother knows McDaniels was behind the jettisoning of Cutler, and then the drafting of Tebow was totally all on McDaniels...which, sorry, can't be parsed as anything but world-class stupid. Or (being gracious)--arrogant.