Cavaliers Thread: We Somehow Both Don't and Do Suck

[Mind Character]

Sexton is not transcendent... and has major deficiencies... doesn't have great court vision, some poor decision making as a passer, and shot deficiencies, but he was the best player available imo based on competitive fire, work ethic, and defensive dominance ability. His penetration ability and slashing scoring will be top 5 in a few years.. He's a culture changer and leader.

Good pick.

The Kyrie Irving trade when it was announced was one of the worst trades ever (I thought it then when ppl were celebrating the trade as if the Cavs did well)....

In effect we traded Kyrie Irving for Ante Zizic, Jordan Clarkson, Rodney Hood, and Colin Sexton.

We traded our own 1st for Larry Nance Jr., Jae Crowder for Rodney Hood, the Isaiah Thomas contract was swapped for Jordan Clarkson's.

Quantity doesn't equal quality especially when it comes to the NBA.

It was and is still a really awful trade.... I don't want to hear about the reports about him getting surgery as a threat and blah blah... we had 2 years of control left on his contract... at 24-25 not even at his peak he scored 41 on 17 for 24 shooting in a finals game and followed that up with hitting the biggest, ice in your veins, cold blooded, high degree of difficulty shot in game 7 of the NBA finals.... arguably the greatest shot in NBA history given what was riding on it... he's an offensive wizard...

I wish Lebron well on whatever he wants to do with his life and family. Appreciate the championship...

Firing David Griffin (the GM that put it all together and just helped us get a championship) was the moment that Lebron was officially out of the door.... the mess that ensued was Dan Gilbert doing what Dan Gilbert does...

[Bonanza23]

Hindsight. At the time the trade was good. Everybody and their mama thought the nets would be horrible. Bad thing is that there were more teams that tanked hard, meanwhile nets had no reason to tank. And we, an nba finals team, lost to them. So yeah now it looks like crap. 

[TheeRealDeal]

2 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

Hindsight. At the time the trade was good. Everybody and their mama thought the nets would be horrible. Bad thing is that there were more teams that tanked hard, meanwhile nets had no reason to tank. And we, an nba finals team, lost to them. So yeah now it looks like crap. 

Even if it ended up at the #1 pick it was a crap trade. You don't trade a Top 10 player who is in his early 20s for a bunch of guys and a shot at a prospect.

I agree with mind. It was a bad trade from the very start.

[Bonanza23]

4 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

Even if it ended up at the #1 pick it was a crap trade. You don't trade a Top 10 player who is in his early 20s for a bunch of guys and a shot at a prospect.

I agree with mind. It was a bad trade from the very start.

I disagree, this draft has been heralded for a time now. I’d take Ayton over Kyrie, probably Doncic too. 

Remember dipstick Kyrie held the Cavs over a barrel. What we got was probably the best we could of got. Yes now it looks bad but if it was top 5 it would be looking pretty dang good. 

Oh and Kyrie thinks the earth is flat. That in itself is enough to trade him. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

Even if it ended up at the #1 pick it was a crap trade. You don't trade a Top 10 player who is in his early 20s for a bunch of guys and a shot at a prospect.

I agree with mind. It was a bad trade from the very start.

When Kyrie pushed for a trade publicly, we lost all leverage.  What we got was a good deal, when you factor in the circumstances.

It’s not like the Cavs were looking to make this deal, a deal had to be made and any deal was going to end with us getting 50 cents on the dollar.

[Bonanza23]

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

When Kyrie pushed for a trade publicly, we lost all leverage.  What we got was a good deal, when you factor in the circumstances.

It’s not like the Cavs were looking to make this deal, a deal had to be made and any deal was going to end with us getting 50 cents on the dollar.

[TheeRealDeal]

15 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

When Kyrie pushed for a trade publicly, we lost all leverage.  What we got was a good deal, when you factor in the circumstances.

It’s not like the Cavs were looking to make this deal, a deal had to be made and any deal was going to end with us getting 50 cents on the dollar.

If we got a good deal then it shouldn't take all that much to get Kawhi Leonard but you just said 8 and Love wouldn't even be close. Reports are saying LA would have to give up multiple 1st, Ball and Ingram.

I don't buy this players have all the leverage bull in the NBA. They only have the leverage because owners are bending over for them. When owners finally get a backbone and stand their ground it would all change. If I were San Antonio I wouldn't trade Leonard just like the Cavs shouldn't have traded Irving. I'd say fine sit out the entire season.

[TheeRealDeal]

Honestly don't even know why I am debating basketball because I never even watch the sport. I guess that is how bored a man can get when he has no football from June 16th until July 12th.

[DawgX]

Sexton isn't necessarily the most flashy pick, but he was probably the best pick we could have made considering who was available. Porter was obviously an option, but he clearly has huge medical concerns for him to fall as far as he did. We need a PG, and we got one who can play well both offensively and defensively. It's possible we could end up trading him for Kemba, but I wouldn't count on it.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

8 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

If we got a good deal then it shouldn't take all that much to get Kawhi Leonard but you just said 8 and Love wouldn't even be close. Reports are saying LA would have to give up multiple 1st, Ball and Ingram.

So then you’re implying that there must have been a better deal that they turned down?  I feel confident they took the best deal they could get, I mean, why wouldn’t they.  

AT THE TIME, we were getting a projected top 3 pick, a guard who just led the league in scoring, a two way wing on one of the best contracts in the NBA and a developmental big. It was a deal that allowed for the team to continue to try to “win now” as well as the future. What other deal (reported) would have done that?

Thomas and Crowder never gelled, for whatever reason, and the Nets played better than expected.  It didn’t work out well at all, but that doesn’t mean the deal was bat AT THE TIME.

8 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

I don't buy this players have all the leverage bull in the NBA. They only have the leverage because owners are bending over for them. When owners finally get a backbone and stand their ground it would all change. If I were San Antonio I wouldn't trade Leonard just like the Cavs shouldn't have traded Irving. I'd say fine sit out the entire season.

All Kyrie had to do is have the knee surgery he threatened to and we get nothing. And he gets paid.  And the organization becomes a festering cesspool. Does your company keep employees who don’t want to work there? There’s a reason for that.

And how does that work in the future with other potential free agents when you become the guy who’s known to play hardball and is willing to potentially sink a team for a season to make a point?  How does the conversation with LeBron go this summer when you just told Kyrie to hold out, and he does and we get bounced earlier? It’s a great take on a message board, but impractical irl.  

You don’t honestly believe “playing hardball” is a concept GM’s haven’t tried before or aren’t aware of do you? It’s a player run league because players win titles. No one cares about coaches, or GM’s, etc ad they don’t mean ish.  Give Pop a bunch of scrubs and he and his HOF resume will coach them to a high lottery pick.  Let me coach LeBron, Leonard and George and watch me look like a genius.

[TheeRealDeal]

Thomas seriously led the league in scoring? I thought he was just another good player every time I seen him in Boston.

So you are saying teams should always trade every star whenever they want just because? Thats bogus. Its not like Cleveland was playing hardball when it came to a contract. It was either you are a Cav or not. It wasn't messing with a man's money.

LeBron started this whole cluster F of stars having all the power in the NBA now players are picking and choosing where they play. It won't be long before it is 4 big market teams with all the studs every year while teams like Cleveland, Milwaukee and Denver are forced to trade away all their good talent because GM's cannot hard ball. Now this line of thinking is infecting its fan base too? No wonder these basketball idiots act like they are gods. Everyone bows to them(well except the officials but that is another story about how these babies in the NBA are the worse complainers who feel they are owed everything in any sport. By far the most disrespectful group of players toward officials in all sports).

Again really don't know why I am talking bball. Just laid out several reasons why I quit watching the NBA.

 

You can say whatever you want about he Kyrie trade but only Cavs fans think it was a good trade and that is all I need to know about it.

[buno67]

The Irving trade was an awful trade. Cavs were never going to get equal value for him. Maybe if Irving never went public but he did and it had the Cavs lose leverage. 

Ppl say should of just kept him for those 2years but those two years could of been pretty poisonous. When there is cancer you don’t just sit on it and wait, you have to remove it right away. Irving was being a cancer. You could tell because of the way he was interacting on social media. 

Also Irving could of easily sat out the year with the knee threat. Dude did miss a lot of games because of it and was lost for the year because of it. Showing it wasn’t just an empty threat but more leverage for him. 

[brownie man]

If Bron stays turn Sexton into Kemba

When Bron leaves trade Love and tank

2019 has some great wing options 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

15 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

Thomas seriously led the league in scoring? I thought he was just another good player every time I seen him in Boston.

Yep, 28+ per game, 5th in MVP voting.

15 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

So you are saying teams should always trade every star whenever they want just because? Thats bogus. Its not like Cleveland was playing hardball when it came to a contract. It was either you are a Cav or not. It wasn't messing with a man's money.

I’ve already listed reasons why teams trade them.

15 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

LeBron started this whole cluster F of stars having all the power in the NBA now players are picking and choosing where they play.

You mean free agency?  Don’t you pick your employer? Doesn’t athletes in other sports force trades/releases?  This isn’t unique to basketball, simply more effective due to guaranteed contracts.

15 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

It won't be long before it is 4 big market teams with all the studs every year while teams like Cleveland, Milwaukee and Denver are forced to trade away all their good talent because GM's cannot hard ball.

When hasn’t it been that? Seriously.  When was the league 8-10 teams deep vying for titles? 

15 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

Now this line of thinking is infecting its fan base too?

Only those who actually watch the sport and acknowledge the realities of the current setup.

15 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

No wonder these basketball idiots act like they are gods. Everyone bows to them(well except the officials but that is another story about how these babies in the NBA are the worse complainers who feel they are owed everything in any sport. By far the most disrespectful group of players toward officials in all sports).

You’re headed off the rails here....

15 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

Again really don't know why I am talking bball.

Not sure either.

15 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

Just laid out several reasons why I quit watching the NBA.

Then perhaps it might be a decent idea to listen a bit to those who do? 

15 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

You can say whatever you want about he Kyrie trade but only Cavs fans think it was a good trade and that is all I need to know about it.

That’s a completely false statement.  I’d provide the links, tweets, etc, but you’ve made your mind up apparently. You can Google them too if you want.

Again, they were NEVER going to “win” this deal, just like the Spurs won’t even if they get Ball and Ingram and multiple firsts for Leonard.  The goal was to get as much as possible for him, which they did, unless we want to use hindsight to bolster the argument.

Saying it was a bad deal implies they either left a better deal on the table (which is unlikely) or we were supposed to “win” the trade (which was never going to happen).

[Bonanza23]

35 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

 

You can say whatever you want about he Kyrie trade but only Cavs fans think it was a good trade and that is all I need to know about it.

Yeah this isn’t accurate at all. The majority of Cavs fans didn’t like the trade at all unless that pick ended up top 5. Nobody wanted to get rid of Kyrie. Cavs made the best of a diva induced tirade and gambled on a potential high pick and it didn’t work out. Ce la vie.  If it ended up top 5 I’d say it was a good trade. 

Sexton plays really good offense, and unlike Kyrie he actually plays defense. Couple him with Zizic and the story is not yet told. 

But as of now it wasn’t a good trade.  Now quit b$&#”*@# about a sport you know nothing about.