Cavaliers Thread: We Somehow Both Don't and Do Suck

[brownie man]

Without knowing if Bron would leave or not we weren’t in the position to take Porter

I believe if Bron would have told us for sure he was leaving we would’ve drafted Porter

 but not knowing Sexton offers the best options for needing an asset that can help us in either direction 

[Mind Character]

19 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

Hindsight. At the time the trade was good. Everybody and their mama thought the nets would be horrible. Bad thing is that there were more teams that tanked hard, meanwhile nets had no reason to tank. And we, an nba finals team, lost to them. So yeah now it looks like crap. 

There were those that thought the trade looked like crap then... mostly b/c the analytics said the Nets would finish outside of the top 7 worst teams based on roster composition and schedule. Others also thought so b/c IT's hip issue severity was not widely known by the public or media at the time.

"Everybody and their mama thought the nets would be horrible." just simply is not true... as all the analytics predicted the Nets would have a pick in the 7-9 range due to having the 7-9th predicted worst record. These metrics took into account a wide variety of factors... and by the way this was all before the Nets best player Jeremy Lin went out with a season ending injury... if he didn't the pick most certainly would've been worse.

Those who thought the Nets would be terrible simply were asleep at the wheel or don't follow the NBA enough to know how truly awful and empty the roster were at the beginning of the season.

 

It was not really about tanking... that affected teams in the top 5's ordering... but was not mainly responsible for where the Nets pick fell as the Nets pick was consistently around pick 6-9 all year except for a brief moment mid-season.

[Bonanza23]

1 hour ago, Mind Character said:

There were those that thought the trade looked like crap then... mostly b/c the analytics said the Nets would finish outside of the top 7 worst teams based on roster composition and schedule. Others also thought so b/c IT's hip issue severity was not widely known by the public or media at the time.

"Everybody and their mama thought the nets would be horrible." just simply is not true... as all the analytics predicted the Nets would have a pick in the 7-9 range due to having the 7-9th predicted worst record. These metrics took into account a wide variety of factors... and by the way this was all before the Nets best player Jeremy Lin went out with a season ending injury... if he didn't the pick most certainly would've been worse.

Those who thought the Nets would be terrible simply were asleep at the wheel or don't follow the NBA enough to know how truly awful and empty the roster were at the beginning of the season.

 

It was not really about tanking... that affected teams in the top 5's ordering... but was not mainly responsible for where the Nets pick fell as the Nets pick was consistently around pick 6-9 all year except for a brief moment mid-season.

Yeah I follow basketball pretty closely and don’t remember all that analytical nonsense. I do remember us getting very unlucky with several teams tanking hard knowing this was going to be a great draft. Add to that the new lottery rules coming next year teams had massive reason to tank hard...errr except one team. 

But none of that matters as the Cavs did the best they could in an un-winnable situation. 

[H2ThaIzzo]

6 hours ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

I think the biggest concern with Sexton, aside from a more consistent jumper, is that he doesn't elevate the play of his teammates quite like a Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. Yes, he isn't afraid to step up and get buckets when his team needs it, but he's gotta improve in terms of facilitation for his team, especially as a PG.

Elevate the play of his teammates? That Alabama team aside from him was not very talented. Their 2017 class had two guys ranked top 35 in the class, Sexton and John Petty, who was essentially just a 3 point shooter. The team surrounding him wasn't very good, yet he still led them to 20 wins and the a berth in the NCAA Tourney. 

He went 14/28 from the field and 13/17 from FT for 21 PPG, 4.5 APG in the tourney. In the matchup against Villanova, it was a 5 point game at halftime. The rest of his team shot 38% from the field and scored 41 points total. 

Kentucky had SEVEN recruits ranked in the top 35. Four of those players were drafted this year. I'm not hating on Shai as a prospect, however to say he elevated the play of his teammates and Sexton didn't isn't a very fair comparison, considering his teammates were substantially better than Sexton's. 

[Bonanza23]

Btw we signed sharp shooter Dakota Mathias from Purdue.

 

https://www.fearthesword.com/2018/6/22/17493390/cavs-sign-dakota-mathias

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

30 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

But none of that matters as the Cavs did the best they could in an un-winnable situation. 

This is the part I feel some don’t appreciate enough or understand.

[Bonanza23]

34 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

This is the part I feel some don’t appreciate enough or understand.

Yep. Most people don’t because most people haven’t been in a front office. 

[Bucketheadsdad]

I thought this was rather funny.  

Edited June 23, 2018 by Bucketheadsdad

[MistaBohmbastic]

22 hours ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

Elevate the play of his teammates? That Alabama team aside from him was not very talented. Their 2017 class had two guys ranked top 35 in the class, Sexton and John Petty, who was essentially just a 3 point shooter. The team surrounding him wasn't very good, yet he still led them to 20 wins and the a berth in the NCAA Tourney. 

He went 14/28 from the field and 13/17 from FT for 21 PPG, 4.5 APG in the tourney. In the matchup against Villanova, it was a 5 point game at halftime. The rest of his team shot 38% from the field and scored 41 points total. 

Kentucky had SEVEN recruits ranked in the top 35. Four of those players were drafted this year. I'm not hating on Shai as a prospect, however to say he elevated the play of his teammates and Sexton didn't isn't a very fair comparison, considering his teammates were substantially better than Sexton's. 

Look no further than Trae Young. Not surrounded by any talent whatsoever, but still led the NCAA in assists.

Sexton is not a great facilitator, no way around it. He plays more like a SG than a PG. I'd like to see him improve in that aspect. A PG has a responsibility of setting up his teammates for success, Sexton's low assist totals were not solely because his team missed shots. I respect that he always wants the ball in his hands, but a great PG can balance shot selection vs. passes, and I'll be eager to see if he can prove himself as a facilitator.

[H2ThaIzzo]

1 hour ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

Look no further than Trae Young. Not surrounded by any talent whatsoever, but still led the NCAA in assists.

Sexton is not a great facilitator, no way around it. He plays more like a SG than a PG. I'd like to see him improve in that aspect. A PG has a responsibility of setting up his teammates for success, Sexton's low assist totals were not solely because his team missed shots. I respect that he always wants the ball in his hands, but a great PG can balance shot selection vs. passes, and I'll be eager to see if he can prove himself as a facilitator.

Your original post was talking about SGA, not Young. You literally said SGA made his teammates better, then when I explained that his teammates were already pretty damn good, you switched players. 

As far as Young compared to Sexton goes, I think you're missing a pretty big fact. In 36 games, Alabama attempted 1975 FG's (54.86 per game) compared to Oklahoma, who is 32 games attempted 2063 field goals (64.5 per game). One team focused on winning by playing solid defense and playing a slower paced offensive game. The other team focused on winning by running the floor and trying to outscore the opponent. If Sexton had 10 more opportunities a game to register additional assists, I'm sure his assist totals would be higher. 

Kemba Walker, Russell Westbrook, Rajon Rondo, all guys who didn't have impressive assist numbers in college. Walker isn't the assist caliber player that the other two are, however he's a much better passer as a pro than he was in college. 

[OhioG]

It doesnt look like many stars are moving around this off-season. I have a suspicion PG stays one year in OKC to see if they can do it this year with Andre Roberson coming back. If not he bails to play with LeBron next year.

If next off-season is the big one to get people, we will be in a great position with 3 effectively expiring freeing up close to 40 million.

TT will be expiring after the 2019-20 season so we can probably dump that contract with a relatively low pick next off-season.

Love can be used to get supporting players if need be. 

Next off-season we can make a huge pitch for LeBron to sign that long term deal and retire in Cleveland while being able to offer him an ability to win out with championships. I think our FO not being willing to part with Love to acquire assets needed to flip to get Kawhi will be what does us in.

 

[Bonanza23]

We signed Billy Preston. Pretty big signing, got mixed up in some shenanigans,if not for that he could have been a lottery pick. REALLY looking forward to see if he can make it. 6’10” 240 lbs and has guard skill. 

No lie we should be kings of the summer league. First time it’s must see tv for me in 4 years. 

[buno67]

5 hours ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

Look no further than Trae Young. Not surrounded by any talent whatsoever, but still led the NCAA in assists.

Sexton is not a great facilitator, no way around it. He plays more like a SG than a PG. I'd like to see him improve in that aspect. A PG has a responsibility of setting up his teammates for success, Sexton's low assist totals were not solely because his team missed shots. I respect that he always wants the ball in his hands, but a great PG can balance shot selection vs. passes, and I'll be eager to see if he can prove himself as a facilitator.

Well the issue I see, who did Sexton have around him that was worth it to pass the ball to? 

I get a Rondo feel from Sexton but that he will be a better shooter. Hell rondo didn’t really become that facilitator that he became know for until His 3rd season when KG and Allen were brought to the team. Sexton is going to walk onto the Cavs with Lebron Love Korver Smith Hood, guys he could feast off of with finding them open shots, specially with his ability to attack the rim. Potentially the great thing is Lue might have a PG that can run his scheme. I know him and Irving had issues and had about 5-6different PGs this season. 

[MistaBohmbastic]

5 hours ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

Your original post was talking about SGA, not Young. You literally said SGA made his teammates better, then when I explained that his teammates were already pretty damn good, you switched players. 

As far as Young compared to Sexton goes, I think you're missing a pretty big fact. In 36 games, Alabama attempted 1975 FG's (54.86 per game) compared to Oklahoma, who is 32 games attempted 2063 field goals (64.5 per game). One team focused on winning by playing solid defense and playing a slower paced offensive game. The other team focused on winning by running the floor and trying to outscore the opponent. If Sexton had 10 more opportunities a game to register additional assists, I'm sure his assist totals would be higher. 

Kemba Walker, Russell Westbrook, Rajon Rondo, all guys who didn't have impressive assist numbers in college. Walker isn't the assist caliber player that the other two are, however he's a much better passer as a pro than he was in college. 

I can stick with SGA if you'd like, but I think Young made for a good example of elevating the players' games around him despite their capabilities, or lack thereof.

With SGA, I think it was pretty clear that the dude has excellent court vision. He created great opportunities for his teammates because of his facilitation. His length allowed him to see over his defenders and fire passes to open guys. Damn straight, playing with better players has an impact. The fact that they're better doesn't mean they're the sole reason for being presented with great looks, someone had to get them the ball. SGA was effective in doing so AND, despite the talent he was surrounded with that you mentioned, emerged as the leader of that Kentucky team as the season went on.

[sdrawkcab321]

7 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

We signed Billy Preston. Pretty big signing, got mixed up in some shenanigans,if not for that he could have been a lottery pick. REALLY looking forward to see if he can make it. 6’10” 240 lbs and has guard skill. 

No lie we should be kings of the summer league. First time it’s must see tv for me in 4 years. 

Another victim of the crooked NCAA. Hopefully he’s not too far behind in his development.