Jump to content

Cavaliers Thread: Embrace The Mediocrity


Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, buno67 said:

what the hell are we doing with Wall? I sure as hell dont want him

If it gets us out of love and able to move up to 2 it’s worth it. He’s a hell of a lot more playable than love. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

If he’s not going to shoot 3s and he’s gonna play next to a non shooter like Allen then that’s gonna be a terribly clogged offense. You just don’t play 2 bigs together anymore. Mobley has every ability to play C so let him play that and have a dynamic offense will a skilled big. Allen can come off the bench. He’s a pnr big. You don’t build a team around those guys. 

You must have missed where I said he can play the 4. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am all for Altman hitting the road, but it concerns the hell out of me thinking who Dan would try to put in as GM if he made that move. We just saw James Jones take over as the GM of the Suns and in a couple of years has made moves to get Mikal Bridges in a draft day trade as well as getting Chris Paul, now having a top record in the NBA. The Cavs are the laughing stock of the league right now, and the owner doesn't seem to help anything. I think the KPJ kneejerk trade will deter many away from taking the job. We traded him for peanuts because we had this supposed "culture" we were building, however from what I've seen and heard, I don't see any culture happening right now. 

 

How I would approach the future

Keep Koby Altman (for now). I don't see a legit target taking the risk to start their career here. A franchise that can't win, with young talent but a lack of leadership, and one potentially difficult decision that SHOULD be made (read below) in order to set this team up for the future, but will not be popular for the fans. 

1) buy out Kevin Love. I don't care what the cost is, we saved like 400k or something only to buy out Drummond, who can actually still play basketball. Love on the court is a liability, and that's when he actually does play. Let's finally move on, let him go contribute in a small role elsewhere, and let's move on. 

2) Now this is the not so popular move that fans will hate. Larry Nance Jr and Dylan Windler traded to the Pacers for Jeremy Lamb and their 2021 1st round pick. If Larry wasn't a Cleveland area native, then he would have already been traded for one of the rumored first round picks that teams have offered for his services. Larry would be an ideal player for a solid team built to win now. Indiana would benefit from Larry's potential defensively, as well as his efficient offensive game. 

3) With a likely top 5 pick, and another top 12 or so pick, the team is positioned to add some really solid talent to the team. 

I used tankathon to randomize the draft order, and in this, the Cavaliers ended up with #3, and the Pacers #11. 

#3-Evan Mobley PF USC. Offensively he already has shown the ability to be a threat outside, athletically, he can play the 4 or the 5, and will only become better as he gets stronger and learns how to play in his frame. I think he is the ideal pair next to Allen, as well as a perfect addition to have with our small guards. 

#11-Trade pick to New York & Cedi Osman for #21, #33, Kevin Knox and a future protected 1st round pick

#21-Jaden Springer

#33-Isaiah Jackson

 

Team Roster

PG-Darius Garland

SG-Collin Sexton

SF-Isaac Okoro

PF-Evan Mobley

C-Jarrett Allen

Depth

Guards Lamb, Springer, Dotson, Veteran PG

Forwards Knox, Stevens, Prince, Wade, Kabengele

Centers Hartenstein, Jackson 

PG SG Jeremy Lamb SF Cedi Osman Lamar Stevens PF Dean Wade Taurean Prince C Isaiah Hartenstein

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have the actual tweet but Amico said that he talked to a former Cavs player (sounds like Drummond) and they said about 85% of the roster would welcome a trade and nobody really wants to be on the Cavs.

The player said it's because of culture and the the front office/leadership group that doesn't want to win and no lottery pick is going to change that.

So that's good. Nearly every player on the team wants out. Why is this team such a consistent dumpster fire and why can't they just be normally bad. 

On the other hand. I don't understand why this is on the front office 'wanting to win'. They made moves (Allen) and drafted mildly well given where they were selecting. At some point this has to be on the players to take responsibility and win games.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I don't have the actual tweet but Amico said that he talked to a former Cavs player (sounds like Drummond) and they said about 85% of the roster would welcome a trade and nobody really wants to be on the Cavs.

The player said it's because of culture and the the front office/leadership group that doesn't want to win and no lottery pick is going to change that.

So that's good. Nearly every player on the team wants out. Why is this team such a consistent dumpster fire and why can't they just be normally bad. 

On the other hand. I don't understand why this is on the front office 'wanting to win'. They made moves (Allen) and drafted mildly well given where they were selecting. At some point this has to be on the players to take responsibility and win games.

The guy they paid big bucks to be the "good soldier"/veteran leader is instead passing the ball to the other team on inbounds passes and taking as much time as humanly possible to recover from the smallest injuries. I really think that's had a huge impact on the team culture/locker room. I mean heck, why else would they be bringing in guys like Delly and Varejao? They're trying to scrape together some sort of vet leadership.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FGK said:

The guy they paid big bucks to be the "good soldier"/veteran leader is instead passing the ball to the other team on inbounds passes and taking as much time as humanly possible to recover from the smallest injuries. I really think that's had a huge impact on the team culture/locker room. I mean heck, why else would they be bringing in guys like Delly and Varejao? They're trying to scrape together some sort of vet leadership.

Right, they need to find a way to dump Love this off-season. Even if it's a buyout and they eat a ton of money but he is starting to remind me of Batum when he was stranded in CHA with a massive contract that was impossible to trade.

It's almost like it would be addition by subtraction getting rid of him and let the young guys police themselves.

But I can see almost any/all veterans wanting out. Love, Prince and there were earlier hints that Garland doesn't like it here either. Wonder where Okoro and Allen stand. My guess is that Allen wouldn't accept a contract from the Cavs regardless if they offer him one this off-season or not.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

I don't have the actual tweet but Amico said that he talked to a former Cavs player (sounds like Drummond) and they said about 85% of the roster would welcome a trade and nobody really wants to be on the Cavs.

The player said it's because of culture and the the front office/leadership group that doesn't want to win and no lottery pick is going to change that.

So that's good. Nearly every player on the team wants out. Why is this team such a consistent dumpster fire and why can't they just be normally bad. 

On the other hand. I don't understand why this is on the front office 'wanting to win'. They made moves (Allen) and drafted mildly well given where they were selecting. At some point this has to be on the players to take responsibility and win games.

Sam Amico is probably one of the worst professional sports coverage people out there. I don't believe for a minute that any NBA players are reaching out to that guy, when there are so many solid guys covering the league that could have spilt those beans. Having said that, the team stinks, the coaching hasn't been impressive by any means, and our legit best player can go out and score 30 shooting 60% from the field and people will rip him because he is "only" a scorer. The KPJ trade was a joke, the way they handled the Drummond situation was terrible. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

Sam Amico is probably one of the worst professional sports coverage people out there. I don't believe for a minute that any NBA players are reaching out to that guy, when there are so many solid guys covering the league that could have spilt those beans. Having said that, the team stinks, the coaching hasn't been impressive by any means, and our legit best player can go out and score 30 shooting 60% from the field and people will rip him because he is "only" a scorer. The KPJ trade was a joke, the way they handled the Drummond situation was terrible. 

I mean Vardon and Jason Lloyd also referenced it in their recent Athletic articles. It's also something thats easy to believe.

I really think the lack of veteran leadership on this team is killing them. That and injuries. Nance is really important and he hasn't played half the season, same with Love, same with Prince, ECT. Those are the guys that should be gluing this team together but they are absent.

 

Edited by AkronsWitness
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I mean Vardon and Jason Lloyd also referenced it in their recent Athletic articles. It's also something thats easy to believe.

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that Vardon or Lloyd wrote their article before Sam did his. 

Addressing the original content you posted, I mean I get it. In one sense, I guess it's relieving to hear that guys would "welcome" a trade if they feel the org isn't committed to winning. Any competitive person does not want to play sports and constantly lose. Especially given how the season started and we looked posed and in control, defensively we were playing tremendous. I think I'd be more concerned if we had a team of content guys saying "oh well, we are getting paid to play basketball, I'm not gonna stress". 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that Vardon or Lloyd wrote their article before Sam did his. 

Addressing the original content you posted, I mean I get it. In one sense, I guess it's relieving to hear that guys would "welcome" a trade if they feel the org isn't committed to winning. Any competitive person does not want to play sports and constantly lose. Especially given how the season started and we looked posed and in control, defensively we were playing tremendous. I think I'd be more concerned if we had a team of content guys saying "oh well, we are getting paid to play basketball, I'm not gonna stress". 

What I'm struggling with is how the players think the Cavs aren't trying to win. MF'er your the ones on the court playing basketball! Lol if your tired of not winning, play better!

It might be because of the Drummond trade that they 'wernt trying to win' but we got Allen who I think is the better player.

Getting rid of KPJ was the kiss of death though that set the franchise back 5 years. I don't care what anyone says about his attitude or whatever, but that guy needed to be on the Cavs. 

If the Cavs can put up with Love and his bi-weekly outbursts, JR Smith for 5 years and Drummond before he refused to play--they could have put up with KPJ. Dum dumb dumb dumb

Edited by AkronsWitness
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

What I'm struggling with is how the players think the Cavs aren't trying to win. MF'er your the ones on the court playing basketball! Lol if your tired of not winning, play better!

It might be because of the Drummond trade that they 'wernt trying to win' but we got Allen who I think is the better player.

Getting rid of KPJ was the kiss of death though that set the franchise back 5 years. I don't care what anyone says about his attitude or whatever, but that guy needed to be on the Cavs. 

If the Cavs can put up with Love and his bi-weekly outbursts, JR Smith for 5 years and Drummond before he refused to play--they could have put up with KPJ. Dum dumb dumb dumb

I think it was both the Drummond situation and the KPJ trade that has some feeling that way. I agree 100%, we have dealt with Diva Kevin for two years now, but we trade KPJ because he got pissed off that the GM gave his locker away? Not only did we do that, but we also leaked to the media what happened, and tried to paint the organization out to be the good guy in the situation. We pretended we had this amazing culture within the building and he was a threat to it, when all along it was a facade. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

I think it was both the Drummond situation and the KPJ trade that has some feeling that way. I agree 100%, we have dealt with Diva Kevin for two years now, but we trade KPJ because he got pissed off that the GM gave his locker away? Not only did we do that, but we also leaked to the media what happened, and tried to paint the organization out to be the good guy in the situation. We pretended we had this amazing culture within the building and he was a threat to it, when all along it was a facade. 

Exactly that plus Love our culture probably is trash 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Exactly that plus Love our culture probably is trash 

Yeah, I wonder if Love will take less money just so he can be bought out. Not sure if that's even possible but if he's serious on leaving the Cavs he should show some financial flexibility

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Yeah, I wonder if Love will take less money just so he can be bought out. Not sure if that's even possible but if he's serious on leaving the Cavs he should show some financial flexibility

Blake Griffin gave back abour 13 mil from what was left on his remaining 2 years. So roughly 20% saved. I think that would likely be a good target for love. Part of me feels like these dudes running the show are afraid that the minute they move him, or do it, he will magically heal himself and be an asset to a contender, making them look even dumber. These guys dont make the best decisions. Drafting is one think, I think we have drafted okay. But if teams were offering us first round picks for Larry Nance Jr, and we really didn't take anyone up on it, then we are very dumb. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Amico only ****s on the Cavs because he has no connections to the team so the only way he gets reads is by stirring the pot. He can be freely ignored. 

Hitting top-3 in the lotto is absolutely crucial for us. We need a top3 pick to lock in Green/Mobley/Cunningham. They are the 3 best fits for our team and what we want and need to do. Pick 4 might be OK cause someone probably takes Suggs 2nd or 3rd. 

 

Main questions for the team right now: 

1. What kind of contracts are Sexton and Allen worth? Neither are max players. I'm concerned someones going to offer a boatload to Allen this offseason, if that happens we have to find a trade or let him walk. Sexton we have an extra year on. Maxing him would be dumb but he deserves and has earned a nice deal. 

2. What to do with Love? Theres not many trades out there that make sense. Only thing I can think of that might work for both teams is Love + Sexton for Porzingus + Brunson + pick. Sexton and Luka are perfect matches and they get out of KPs awful deal. I doubt either team agrees to this though. Love most likely has to get bought out. 

3. How will nepotism effect us? Right now we have JB as head coach because his dads a Sr Advisor. JB never should have been hired as an assistant with his dad in the front office because now we might have to either fire both, or wait for his dad to die before letting JB go. In additional Gilberts son seems to be taking over but theres less we can do about that. 

4. How do we round out this roster. Garland looks like a legit all star someday. We need that 1A to his 1B. Sexton can be a dynamite #3 coming off the bench. Something like Garland/Okoro/Green or Cunningham/Nance/Allen looks really solid with Sexton, Prince, Hart and others off the bench

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...