Cavaliers Thread: We Somehow Both Don't and Do Suck

[AkronsWitness]

7 hours ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

Reddish still has some potential. NY never played him last year because thibs is an idiot who doesn’t play guys he doesn’t know. If he was cheap I’d take a shot at him. 

Right, if the Knicks will just dump him for another future 1st then I'm all for the gamble.

We just need somebody, anybody who has size and athleticism on the wing. It would be awesome if Okoro or Agbaji were 3" taller and 30lbs heavier.

I could also see them making a play for Dillon Brooks with Desmond Banes emergence.

Edited June 27, 2022 by AkronsWitness

[AkronsWitness]

2 hours ago, roger murdock said:

Reddish is a bad culture fit. He thinks he should have things handed to him and he doesnt put in the work to expand his game. 

 

I like the Ochai pick. Hes got great size and athleticism and production for a 3 and D guy. Very much a leader and hard worker. I think he's a high end role player with a bit more upside. He can really splash it and works well off screens and cutting. 

He's essentially going to be taking Cedi Osmans mins and role. So with that, I wonder what a package of Sexton/Cedi could get you.

I know the Spurs were after Cedi at the deadline last year. It's a pipe dream but would a package of Sexton/Cedi/picks/prospects be enough to land Dejonte Murray?

[roger murdock]

Reddish stunk in college, stunk as a rookie, stunk as a sophomore, and stunk in his third year, his team gave him up, and his new time regretted the trade. 

 

He's going to be a min contract guy / out of NBA soon. He's raw and has attitude problems and doesn't work on his game. I wouldnt trade anything for him and dont think he'd get any minutes on our team

[candyman93]

If you guys had to choose for modern era basketball:

 

Peak Lebron

or

Peak Shaq

 

I gotta be honest, I’d probably pick Shaq. I know he’d have a hard time defending stretch bigs, but there’s no big guy in the NBA who could guard this:

 

He made an all time great defensive big look like a *****.

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by candyman93

[MWil23]

10 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

If you guys had to choose for modern era basketball:

 

Peak Lebron

or

Peak Shaq

 

I gotta be honest, I’d probably pick Shaq. I know he’d have a hard time defending stretch bigs, but there’s no big guy in the NBA who could guard this:

 

He made an all time great defensive big look like a *****.

 

Modern Era with the rules and game now Bron. Early 2000’s era or before that Peak Shaq and it’s not even close.

[AkronsWitness]

33 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

If you guys had to choose for modern era basketball:

 

Peak Lebron

or

Peak Shaq

 

I gotta be honest, I’d probably pick Shaq. I know he’d have a hard time defending stretch bigs, but there’s no big guy in the NBA who could guard this:

 

He made an all time great defensive big look like a *****.

 

The problem with Shaq in todays NBA is that he would likely be ran off the floor by the 3rd QTR. He was a absolute machine but in this 'pace+space' era I wonder how long his legs would last running back and forth chasing 3 balls.

Its the same sort of thing Rudy Gobert struggles with because he is not athletic enough to guard out to the 3pt line and he doesnt have any offense away from the basket.

Either way---Ill take the guy who went to the NBA Finals 9x in 10 years in this era lol

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

9 hours ago, roger murdock said:

Reddish stunk in college, stunk as a rookie, stunk as a sophomore, and stunk in his third year, his team gave him up, and his new time regretted the trade. 

 

He's going to be a min contract guy / out of NBA soon. He's raw and has attitude problems and doesn't work on his game. I wouldnt trade anything for him and dont think he'd get any minutes on our team

I agree.

It’s not unheard of for a young guy to mature and be a different player at 22/23 than at 18/19, but considering he’s soon going to be on his 3rd team despite considerable physical talent and decent shooting ability I think we should pass.

We need mature, gritty dudes who want to put in work.  Accessory pieces need to be hustlers, not projects and dudes full of potential that’s never realized.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

23 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

The problem with Shaq in todays NBA is that he would likely be ran off the floor by the 3rd QTR. He was a absolute machine but in this 'pace+space' era I wonder how long his legs would last running back and forth chasing 3 balls.

Its the same sort of thing Rudy Gobert struggles with because he is not athletic enough to guard out to the 3pt line and he doesnt have any offense away from the basket.

Either way---Ill take the guy who went to the NBA Finals 9x in 10 years in this era lol

Yeah, I’d take LBJ and it’s not particularly close.

Shaq was too big to play in today’s nba.  Teams would play small ball and run his big arse off the court.

Also, he was a straight up liability late in games.

Great, dominant player but not on LeBron’s level.

[candyman93]

I’m curious if todays resting would help Shaq in todays league.

 

Shaq would HAVE to lose some belly too. He’d have to look like he did in Orlando.

 

Shaq was a horrific free throw shooter, but Lebron is a bad free throw shooter himself (it’s his only flaw).

[roger murdock]

1 hour ago, candyman93 said:

I’m curious if todays resting would help Shaq in todays league.

 

Shaq would HAVE to lose some belly too. He’d have to look like he did in Orlando.

 

Shaq was a horrific free throw shooter, but Lebron is a bad free throw shooter himself (it’s his only flaw).

The free throw % is a major difference though. 

 

LeBron is a 73% FT shooter which is equal to ~146 points/100 possessions. When an elite offense gets between 110-115 points/possession fouling LeBron is always terrible unless its preventing an easy layup. 

 

Shaq at 53% is ~106 points/100 possession which is bad + if you are attempting a comeback it means you are stalling their offense AND stopping the clock giving your offense all the time of possession. 

 

This is why Ben Simmons falling apart was so bad. Being a 65% foul shooter is really bad but its good enough that you cant get intentionally fouled strategically unless the teams desperate and running out of time. But dropping to 35% or whatever he did destroyed him because 70 points/100 possession is 'lose every game in a blowout' territory. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

46 minutes ago, roger murdock said:

The free throw % is a major difference though. 

 

LeBron is a 73% FT shooter which is equal to ~146 points/100 possessions. When an elite offense gets between 110-115 points/possession fouling LeBron is always terrible unless its preventing an easy layup. 

 

Shaq at 53% is ~106 points/100 possession which is bad + if you are attempting a comeback it means you are stalling their offense AND stopping the clock giving your offense all the time of possession. 

 

This is why Ben Simmons falling apart was so bad. Being a 65% foul shooter is really bad but its good enough that you cant get intentionally fouled strategically unless the teams desperate and running out of time. But dropping to 35% or whatever he did destroyed him because 70 points/100 possession is 'lose every game in a blowout' territory. 

Additionally, I feel like LBJ’s FT percentage could have always been higher had he been more focused.

In the playoffs and key moments, he tends to knock them down pretty well.  Regular season, 2nd quarter, meaningless game?  Meh. 
 

He generally makes them when he needs to. 

[candyman93]

Thank God we moved Kyrie Irving 

 

Dude is a train wreck on every team

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

3 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Thank God we moved Kyrie Irving 

 

Dude is a train wreck on every team

He’s gotta be at or past the point of being more of a headache than he’s worth.  
 

He’s one of the top 3-5 guys in the league offensively (talent and skill wise), but good god what a head case.  

[AkronsWitness]

1 hour ago, roger murdock said:

The free throw % is a major difference though. 

 

LeBron is a 73% FT shooter which is equal to ~146 points/100 possessions. When an elite offense gets between 110-115 points/possession fouling LeBron is always terrible unless its preventing an easy layup. 

 

Shaq at 53% is ~106 points/100 possession which is bad + if you are attempting a comeback it means you are stalling their offense AND stopping the clock giving your offense all the time of possession. 

 

This is why Ben Simmons falling apart was so bad. Being a 65% foul shooter is really bad but its good enough that you cant get intentionally fouled strategically unless the teams desperate and running out of time. But dropping to 35% or whatever he did destroyed him because 70 points/100 possession is 'lose every game in a blowout' territory. 

I think a major difference is that there has never been a player who can finish through contact like LeBron. I remember seeing a stat that he became the all time leader in And-1s back around 2010. Thats the problem he poses. When you try to intentionally foul him and make him shoot FTs, he is also likely to still hit the shot--which is why so many teams tried to 'wrap him up' running to the rim essentially tackling him to prevent the And-1.

Plus, LeBron is not nearly as bad as a FT shooter as Shaq. LeBron goes in spurts where he will knock down 18-20 FTs and then have a bad stretch where he goes 8-20 which dropped his average down to just 'okay' at 73%. Hes streaky FT shooter.

Shaq was just terrible all the way around, every time from the line.

[sdrawkcab321]

1 hour ago, candyman93 said:

Thank God we moved Kyrie Irving 

 

Dude is a train wreck on every team

Nah I would have still been happy to have him. He’s still an offensive monster.