sp6488 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Raves said: Is UCF better than Ohio State? I'll just let that sit there. Record doesn't always mean which team is better. Also was LSU really better than Alabama a few years ago when they had the rematch in the National Championship game? LSU had the better record and had beat them previously H2H... Some arguments aren't the greatest to use. I will say that I think there is a fair argument for the Saints to be the best team, but there is just as good of an argument for 4 other teams as well in the Vikings, Pats, Steelers, and Philly, and yes I would even toss the Rams in there. I wouldn't toss the Panthers in there though because they have some really bad losses and have really looked lost at times, more recently than any of the previously mentioned teams so I really don't trust them in the long run, though I do feel they could beat any of the top teams as well, though just not with the consistency of those teams vs each other. Come on man... You can't actually think this is as good of a point as it looks like you do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD4L Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 I can't say New Orleans is the best in the NFL. I can admit they have a case to be top 5 and their fans should be optimistic about their chances. My greatest issue could be their most important defensive player is a rookie (arguably-my money is on Cam Jordan), and their healthy LBs are going to have trouble against quality running games. As impressive a 4th quarter performance as they put up, the Redskins dominated that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 hour ago, MD4L said: I can't say New Orleans is the best in the NFL. I can admit they have a case to be top 5 and their fans should be optimistic about their chances. My greatest issue could be their most important defensive player is a rookie (arguably-my money is on Cam Jordan), and their healthy LBs are going to have trouble against quality running games. As impressive a 4th quarter performance as they put up, the Redskins dominated that game. You are also basing this off a game in which we were missing 4 defensive starters. In other words, not our real defense as over a third of our guys were out and all but Okafor will be back soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breesus mode Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 hours ago, sp6488 said: Come on man... You can't actually think this is as good of a point as it looks like you do... It is, record isn't everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD4L Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 52 minutes ago, tyler735 said: You are also basing this off a game in which we were missing 4 defensive starters. In other words, not our real defense as over a third of our guys were out and all but Okafor will be back soon. Crawley and Lattimore were tough injuries, though I tend to dismiss injuries because it's part of the game. If they have to play Atlanta, Carolina without them tough cookies when it comes to playoff seeding. Same applies this week vs LA Rams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 minute ago, MD4L said: Crawley and Lattimore were tough injuries, though I tend to dismiss injuries because it's part of the game. If they have to play Atlanta, Carolina without them tough cookies when it comes to playoff seeding. Same applies this week vs LA Rams. This is why I don't think we're the best team in the league. Our defensive depth is horrible, and we turn into a wet paper bag with Lattimore and Crawley out. The next guys up probably shouldn't even be on a roster. Every team is worse when their best player gets hurt, but Saints in particular will probably see a huge drop off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said: This is why I don't think we're the best team in the league. Our defensive depth is horrible, and we turn into a wet paper bag with Lattimore and Crawley out. The next guys up probably shouldn't even be on a roster. Every team is worse when their best player gets hurt, but Saints in particular will probably see a huge drop off. Totally agree. JLowe knows what’s up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp6488 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Breesus mode said: It is, record isn't everything Agreed 100%, record isn't everything. Don't throw out your shoulder knocking down those straw men. It's intellectually dishonest to use the OSU/UCF example. NFL teams play infinitely more comparable qualities of opponents than NCAA teams. It's a pool of 32 teams with far closer level of talent vs. 120+ teams with wide disparities of talent. If you want to make the argument that NFL records are worse tools of team-to-team comparison than most believe them to be, go ahead, make that argument. If you wanted to make an argument to the absurd, that's one thing, but that at least has to be in the ballpark of what we're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 hours ago, MD4L said: Crawley and Lattimore were tough injuries, though I tend to dismiss injuries because it's part of the game. If they have to play Atlanta, Carolina without them tough cookies when it comes to playoff seeding. Same applies this week vs LA Rams. As mentioned by another poster we have a substantial drop off in talent beyond our starters at several positions. However minor injuries can't be dismissed for strongly influencing the outcome of the game against the Redskins. Either way the Saints won with a severely gimped defense. Knowing we will have most of these guys back in the next couple weeks is a much different story than having them out for the season. In other words, they will likely be ready for the real games in the postseason and not a fairly meaningless regular season game against the Redskins. At least as long as there are no new injuries/setbacks. We are a much different team with our key starters in there. You said earlier "my greatest issue is their most important defensive player is could be a rookie". My response to that is that Lattimore isn't your typical rookie. He's doing things that are incredibly rare for a rookie CB this year. I don't care how many years you've been in the league, if a player can completely shut down opposing WR's every week it doesn't matter how long he's been in the league. At this point I still stand by my statements from a few weeks ago. The Saints have an argument along with a few other teams as the best in the NFL. However defensive depth may be one of our biggest concerns going forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD4L Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 I love the optimism honestly. Will never deter that from an actual fan. I had much lower projections for the Saints this year. It's been refreshing to see Drew Brees have a talented defense and he certainly was Brees of old in the 4th quarter. As a team, I think they're with Pittsburgh as Minnesota an elite team. Unlike the previous teams, their defense doesn't have the resume of the other teams. As a pure specator it's fun to see running backs like Alvin Kamara play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD4L Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, tyler735 said: As mentioned by another poster we have a substantial drop off in talent beyond our starters at several positions. However minor injuries can't be dismissed for strongly influencing the outcome of the game against the Redskins. Either way the Saints won with a severely gimped defense. Knowing we will have most of these guys back in the next couple weeks is a much different story than having them out for the season. In other words, they will likely be ready for the real games in the postseason and not a fairly meaningless regular season game against the Redskins. At least as long as there are no new injuries/setbacks. We are a much different team with our key starters in there. You said earlier "my greatest issue is their most important defensive player is could be a rookie". My response to that is that Lattimore isn't your typical rookie. He's doing things that are incredibly rare for a rookie CB this year. I don't care how many years you've been in the league, if a player can completely shut down opposing WR's every week it doesn't matter how long he's been in the league. At this point I still stand by my statements from a few weeks ago. The Saints have an argument along with a few other teams as the best in the NFL. However defensive depth may be one of our biggest concerns going forward Anyway as a team, it'll be another good test against LA. The Redskins are a good team but as evidence of their 5-6 record, they have trouble finishing games and/or winning games they certainly play good enough to. Cousins is an upgrade in talent from Goff for now, but the Rams bring an upper echelon defense. If the Saints can pull this off, it'll be one of their more impressive wins this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Town Values Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 ... That's a negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 So since the Vikings beat the Rams and the Rams beat the Saints, who of the 3 is now the 2nd best team in the NFC? Is it the Vikings now since they too beat the Saints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Nabbs4u said: So since the Vikings beat the Rams and the Rams beat the Saints, who of the 3 is now the 2nd best team in the NFC? The Bears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Raves said: The Bears? I'm assuming you're referring to the Eagles Opponent the Saints beat 20-12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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