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ny92jefferis

Early talk on the Giants offseason

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Which of you feel that we should draft quarterback in the first round?  

For me, drafting quarterback doesn't resolve what I see as the problems with the offensive line and the teams inability to establish a running game.

oh Merry Christmas.  Hope everyone had a great day.

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18 minutes ago, ny92jefferis said:

Which of you feel that we should draft quarterback in the first round?  

For me, drafting quarterback doesn't resolve what I see as the problems with the offensive line and the teams inability to establish a running game.

oh Merry Christmas.  Hope everyone had a great day.

We should go with a weighted BPA. If it’s close between a few players, then we should towards the position with the most impact. That’s quarterback. One player won’t fix our team.

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Just now, Acgott said:

We should go with a weighted BPA. If it’s close between a few players, then we should towards the position with the most impact. That’s quarterback. One player won’t fix our team.

imo, Eli isn't done.  This was an a extremely challenging year for him and the team, so I'm having to look at this season a bit differently, but before the season started I think we could all agree that the offensive line was bad throughout the preseason.  I'm hopeful that the Giants can focus on correcting the offensive line via free agency and draft.  Allow Eli to remain our qb, while we let Davis Webb progress over the next two seasons.

 

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6 minutes ago, ny92jefferis said:

imo, Eli isn't done.  This was an a extremely challenging year for him and the team, so I'm having to look at this season a bit differently, but before the season started I think we could all agree that the offensive line was bad throughout the preseason.  I'm hopeful that the Giants can focus on correcting the offensive line via free agency and draft.  Allow Eli to remain our qb, while we let Davis Webb progress over the next two seasons.

 

Eli is 37. When you have the opportunity to select a top quarterback you can’t miss the opportunity. It’s a no brainer decision if they think the QB can be their future.

a new GM/coach are going to want a fresh slate. The Giants need a fresh slate

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Just now, Acgott said:

Eli is 37. When you have the opportunity to select a top quarterback you can’t miss the opportunity. It’s a no brainer decision if they think the QB can be their future.

I understand but Eli has two years remaining on his contract.  They drafted a 3rd round qb in Webb, that looked good in college.  The giants drafting for the offensive line this year with this high pick could get the team back in the play offs this year and back to potentially winning another SB.  I guess I'm just not ready to start rebuilding.  

 

 

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Just now, ny92jefferis said:

I understand but Eli has two years remaining on his contract.  They drafted a 3rd round qb in Webb, that looked good in college.  The giants drafting for the offensive line this year with this high pick could get the team back in the play offs this year and back to potentially winning another SB.  I guess I'm just not ready to start rebuilding.  

 

 

Rebuilding sucks but it is what we need to do. We can’t put bandaids on broken legs anymore. 

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43 minutes ago, Acgott said:

Rebuilding sucks but it is what we need to do. We can’t put bandaids on broken legs anymore. 

I just don't think we are to that point yet.  fix the offensive line, find a running game and linebackers and I think we're right back in it.

but, I would like your opinion on how you'd approach the offseason, would you release or trade Eli?  How would you work it out and what would your expectations be over the next two seasons standings wise?

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1 minute ago, ny92jefferis said:

I just don't think we are to that point yet.  fix the offensive line, find a running game and linebackers and I think we're right back in it.

but, I would like your opinion on how you'd approach the offseason, would you release or trade Eli?  How would you work it out and what would your expectations be over the next two seasons standings wise?

We have missed the playoffs 5 of past 6 years. We have two coaches over that time that have failed badly. The current players aren’t cutting it in all areas. You don’t lose 13 games and fix it with a few players. That doesn’t happen by acciddng 

i would trade Eli if we can, if not he’ll make a good mentor. I have no idea how an off-season will go, but we can’t take shortcuts anymore.

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38 minutes ago, Acgott said:

We have missed the playoffs 5 of past 6 years. We have two coaches over that time that have failed badly. The current players aren’t cutting it in all areas. You don’t lose 13 games and fix it with a few players. That doesn’t happen by acciddng 

i would trade Eli if we can, if not he’ll make a good mentor. I have no idea how an off-season will go, but we can’t take shortcuts anymore.

Appreciate your opinion I just can't agree with it.  I think Eli gives us the best chance to win.  Also, don't feel that a complete overhaul is needed, but I respect your opinion and hope the giants aren't hearing you...haha.

 

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1 hour ago, ny92jefferis said:

Appreciate your opinion I just can't agree with it.  I think Eli gives us the best chance to win.  Also, don't feel that a complete overhaul is needed, but I respect your opinion and hope the giants aren't hearing you...haha.

 

And I hope the Giants are hearing him and not you.  

Is it possible the Giants can fix the offensive line in one off season. It is possible but not likely,  it will probably take two years to fix it. So when this offensive line is good enough to compete you want to do so with a 39 year old Quarterback? If the Redskins resign Kurt Cousins we will have the worst QB in the division. Eli in his prime I would put up against any of them, Eli is not in his prime we can already see him missing on open  wideouts he would of hit years ago. 

Despite the Giants owners and coaching staff doing their best to try and win games the football gods are smiling on us having us still lose these games so we can get a franchise QB with the #2 pick. I think just about everyone that looks at this board knows that the hardest position to fill and the most needed is a franchise QB. To not draft one when there is one sitting there for you to take would be a mistake.

As Agcot pointed out we have other areas of concern besides the offensive line. Will we have a young or in his prime linebacker that is good and can stay healthy on our team next year? Our CB situation is a mess, Jack Rabbit got himself suspended and clearly quit in a game. DRC got himself suspended is up there in age and is probably making too much money.   And Eli Apple at best is a big baby that needs to mature and at worst is a headcase. 

Draft the franchise Qb with the #2 pick, cut Eli and have a great cap situation for when we have to sign Odell and Collins would be the smart move.

The move to make everyone happy including myself would be to still draft the future franchise QB and keep Eli for a season maybe two. I would have no problems using every pick outside of the #2 pick in the draft to build up the team for Eli and our future QB.

To not draft our future QB if one is there to be taken would really test my love for the Giants. I love this team for too long to say I would no longer be a fan but the stupidity leadership has shown in the  past (mostly by not doing enough to fix the o-line for Eli)  and the current stupidity of not finding a way to get Davis Webb some playing time is really pissing me off and shaking the faith I have in Mara.

 

 

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A lot of good back-and-forth in this thread, thanks guys. 

I'm not sure on the draft-Rosen-or-Darnold at #2-overall question. I can see the benefits of it- securing an franchise QB is huge- but I also agree that a lot of the team needs to be rebuilt. That blocking line and the running game have been problematic for some years now. I can also conceive of the merits of trading down to get the haul of picks that seems to be available every year in a position such as the Giants are- some of these QB-hungry teams are willing to overpay to get that Top-3 selection.

What I am sure of is the need for them to draft well, whatever scenario plays out. Their new GM must hit on a higher percentage of his picks, getting solid, contributing football players, than did Jerry Reese. If they do that- this draft, and for years to follow- they'll be a good team again.

 

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9 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

And I hope the Giants are hearing him and not you.  

Is it possible the Giants can fix the offensive line in one off season. It is possible but not likely,  it will probably take two years to fix it. So when this offensive line is good enough to compete you want to do so with a 39 year old Quarterback?

If the Redskins resign Kurt Cousins we will have the worst QB in the division. Eli in his prime I would put up against any of them, Eli is not in his prime we can already see him missing on open  wideouts he would of hit years ago. 

Despite the Giants owners and coaching staff doing their best to try and win games the football gods are smiling on us having us still lose these games so we can get a franchise QB with the #2 pick. I think just about everyone that looks at this board knows that the hardest position to fill and the most needed is a franchise QB. To not draft one when there is one sitting there for you to take would be a mistake.

As Agcot pointed out we have other areas of concern besides the offensive line. Will we have a young or in his prime linebacker that is good and can stay healthy on our team next year? Our CB situation is a mess, Jack Rabbit got himself suspended and clearly quit in a game. DRC got himself suspended is up there in age and is probably making too much money.   And Eli Apple at best is a big baby that needs to mature and at worst is a headcase. 

Draft the franchise Qb with the #2 pick, cut Eli and have a great cap situation for when we have to sign Odell and Collins would be the smart move.

The move to make everyone happy including myself would be to still draft the future franchise QB and keep Eli for a season maybe two. I would have no problems using every pick outside of the #2 pick in the draft to build up the team for Eli and our future QB.

To not draft our future QB if one is there to be taken would really test my love for the Giants. I love this team for too long to say I would no longer be a fan but the stupidity leadership has shown in the  past (mostly by not doing enough to fix the o-line for Eli)  and the current stupidity of not finding a way to get Davis Webb some playing time is really pissing me off and shaking the faith I have in Mara.

I'm perfectly ok as I've said before with keeping Eli Manning for as long as he's willing to stay, 39 years old it doesn't matter to me.  You and others think his time is over and I can understand the argument.  Personally, I think whichever direction the franchise goes in is going to be one of the hardest decisions that they have had to make in a long time.  Like you, I've struggled with the decisions that the team has taken over the years in not doing more to support the offensive line and running game..  It was welcoming to hear that the owners finally fired the GM and HC, giving me hope that the franchise is moving in the right direction.

We can go back years and the same issues always are present.  Offensive line, running game and linebackers.  It would be nice to see the team address those issues.  What we haven't heard is quarterback at least not until this disastrous season.  Which for me was a surprise, I think many felt that we were going to go pretty deep in the playoffs this year, that is until we saw just how bad the offensive line was during the preseason.  

I get the want to draft a franchise quarterback, but are these guys you've got in mind at selecting a lock?  The number of franchise quarterbacks drafted within the top 5, since 2004, isn't reassuring that its a lock we'll have what you're looking for.

.

Year RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL TEAM
2017 1 2 Mitchell Trubisky QB North Carolina Chicago Bears
2016 1 1 Jared Goff QB California Los Angeles Rams
2016 1 2 Carson Wentz QB North Dakota State Philadelphia Eagles
2015 1 1 Jameis Winston QB Florida State Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2015 1 2 Marcus Mariota QB Oregon Tennessee Titans
2014 1 3 Blake Bortles QB Central Florida Jacksonville Jaguars
2012 1 1 Andrew Luck QB Stanford Indianapolis Colts
2012 1 2 Robert Griffin QB Baylor Washington Redskins
2011 1 1 Cam Newton QB Auburn Carolina Panthers
2010 1 1 Sam Bradford QB Oklahoma Los Angeles Rams
2009 1 1 Matthew Stafford QB Georgia Detroit Lions
2009 1 5 Mark Sanchez QB USC New York Jets
2008 1 3 Matt Ryan QB Boston College Atlanta Falcons
2007 1 1 JaMarcus Russell QB Louisiana State Oakland Raiders
2006 1 3 Vince Young QB Texas Tennessee Titans
2005 1 1 Alex Smith QB Utah San Francisco 49ers
2004 1 1 Eli Manning QB Mississippi San Diego Chargers
2004 1 4 Philip Rivers QB North Carolina State New York Giants

      

 How sure are you?  

If I knew that drafting a quarterback with the 2nd overall pick would land us another Eli Manning, Matt Ryan or Wentz then I'd probably be more apt to jump the fence, but that pick could just as easily be a dud.  I guess that is why I'm not in any big hurry to dump Manning and would rather focus the attention on giving him a better line, a running game that would actually pull the safeties up.  

I do agree that fixing the offensive line isn't going to be easy, but just having something better than what we've currently have in conjunction with a healthy group of receivers, a rookie tight end headed into his second season and a coach that can actually prepare and make changes to the game plan when needed would go a long ways.

 

 

 

Edited by ny92jefferis

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35 minutes ago, ny92jefferis said:

 How sure are you?  

If I knew that drafting a quarterback with the 2nd overall pick would land us another Eli Manning, Matt Ryan or Wentz then I'd probably be more apt to jump the fence, but that pick could just as easily be a dud.  I guess that is why I'm not in any big hurry to dump Manning and would rather focus the attention on giving him a better line, a running game that would actually pull the safeties up.  

 

 

 

 

If you are going by 'We can only draft a QB a can't miss QB' then we are never going to draft one. Can't miss QB's only come once every 10 to 20 years. The last one everyone knew was can't miss was Luck, the other can't miss before him  was Peyton Manning.   So am I sure that the QB we pick will be a franchise QB of course not. What I am pretty sure of is we are not going to be in a better position to get one in the near or even mid future. While none of the QB's in this draft are can't miss, the top 2 QB are going #1 and #2 in this draft so both of them are very highly rated.

Wentz is a top 7 QB, Dak in the Cowboys offensive system is a top 10 QB, both the Eagles and the Cowboys are good now and are only going to get better over the years. Will you be happy battling the Redskins for 3rd place in the NFC East  from 2020-2030 just to give Eli Manning a chance to go 10-6 make the playoffs and most likely get bounced out  in the 2nd round over the next the two  years?

 

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36 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

If you are going by 'We can only draft a QB a can't miss QB' then we are never going to draft one. Can't miss QB's only come once every 10 to 20 years. The last one everyone knew was can't miss was Luck, the other can't miss before him  was Peyton Manning.   So am I sure that the QB we pick will be a franchise QB of course not. What I am pretty sure of is we are not going to be in a better position to get one in the near or even mid future. While none of the QB's in this draft are can't miss, the top 2 QB are going #1 and #2 in this draft so both of them are very highly rated.

Wentz is a top 7 QB, Dak in the Cowboys offensive system is a top 10 QB, both the Eagles and the Cowboys are good now and are only going to get better over the years. Will you be happy battling the Redskins for 3rd place in the NFC East  from 2020-2030 just to give Eli Manning a chance to go 10-6 make the playoffs and most likely get bounced out  in the 2nd round over the next the two  years?

 

You are assuming the worst - battling it out for 3rd place for the next 13 years.  It's all doom and gloom if we don't draft a quarterback this year.   You're painting a pretty opinionated outlook of the future are you not?  

 

 

 

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@ny92jefferis You can say that about every single position in the draft. The draft is a crapshoot. It’s always has been. There are plenty of top 10 busts at all positions. 

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