Early talk on the Giants offseason

[ny92mike]

6 minutes ago, Acgott said:

@ny92jefferis You can say that about every single position in the draft. The draft is a crapshoot. It’s always has been. There are plenty of top 10 busts at all positions. 

Right...I agree.  Nothings a lock, but the idea of doom and gloom for the next 13 years if we don't draft one is a far cry would you agree?  I know what Eli can do and we just drafted a quarterback that we have no idea what he brings to the table.  I'm comfortable with that, I'd rather draft a top 5 pick on an offensive lineman if one is there.  Agree to disagree on the need to draft a quarterback.  You and Go believe Eli is done, I don't.  

[ny92mike]

Since we're hard liners on the quarterback position.  What are some of the other positional needs that the Giants must address?

 

[Acgott]

9 minutes ago, ny92jefferis said:

Right...I agree.  Nothings a lock, but the idea of doom and gloom for the next 13 years if we don't draft one is a far cry would you agree?  I know what Eli can do and we just drafted a quarterback that we have no idea what he brings to the table.  I'm comfortable with that, I'd rather draft a top 5 pick on an offensive lineman if one is there.  Agree to disagree on the need to draft a quarterback.  You and Go believe Eli is done, I don't.  

Oh it’s certainly not doom and gloom if we don’t go QB. Even if you don’t think Eli is done, he is 37 and has at MOST two seasons left. The opportunity to draft the top 1 or 2 quarterback is way too big to pass up if we think he’s our next QB. We won’t ever have the opportunity again. Its the right move.

Im absolutely against drafting any other Offensive player with the second pick. I don’t think the impact is there at OL and especially RB. OL relies so much on the other 4 on the line. We see the impact Joe Thomas has had on the Browns. The single OL just doesn’t have the same impact. 

If we don’t draft a QB, it should be pass rusher if the value is there.

Its a new era. It’s time for a new direction.

[YogiBiz]

1 hour ago, Go_Giants said:

If you are going by 'We can only draft a QB a can't miss QB' then we are never going to draft one. Can't miss QB's only come once every 10 to 20 years. The last one everyone knew was can't miss was Luck, the other can't miss before him  was Peyton Manning.   So am I sure that the QB we pick will be a franchise QB of course not. What I am pretty sure of is we are not going to be in a better position to get one in the near or even mid future. While none of the QB's in this draft are can't miss, the top 2 QB are going #1 and #2 in this draft so both of them are very highly rated.

Wentz is a top 7 QB, Dak in the Cowboys offensive system is a top 10 QB, both the Eagles and the Cowboys are good now and are only going to get better over the years. Will you be happy battling the Redskins for 3rd place in the NFC East  from 2020-2030 just to give Eli Manning a chance to go 10-6 make the playoffs and most likely get bounced out  in the 2nd round over the next the two  years?

Using the Cowboys and Eagles to give substance to your argument isn't the best of looks. Considering before they drafted "their guys", both teams built really good offensive lines. 

I really think we should look to fill the other wholes this team has before we start drafting QB's willie nillie, because that is how bad franchises are run and busts are made. I only want to go after a QB, when I know my team can help him succeed. The most impactful position on the field is QB, yes, but football is still a team game (unless your name is Aaron Rodgers, then you can take whatever they give you to the playoffs).

15 minutes ago, Acgott said:

I don’t think the impact is there at OL

Quenton Nelson says hi

[ny92mike]

1 minute ago, Acgott said:

Oh it’s certainly not doom and gloom if we don’t go QB. Even if you don’t think Eli is done, he is 37 and has at MOST two seasons left. The opportunity to draft the top 1 or 2 quarterback is way too big to pass up if we think he’s our next QB. We won’t ever have the opportunity again. Its the right move.

Im absolutely against drafting any other Offensive player with the second pick. I don’t think the impact is there at OL and especially RB. OL relies so much on the other 4 on the line. We see the impact Joe Thomas has had on the Browns. The single OL just doesn’t have the same impact. 

If we don’t draft a QB, it should be pass rusher if the value is there.

Its a new era. It’s time for a new direction.

lol...you love those pass rushers and can't really say I'm against it.  Can never have enough.

Trying to stay off the quarterback debate, I don't think either of us are budging on our opinions with that topic.  

I'm fine with drafting offensive lineman that early if the value is there, which means primarily left tackles, Orlando Brown from Oklahoma comes to mind.  Combine him with some new bodies from the free agency.  I think it could make an impact.  It isn't like we need hall of famers to replace what we've got at tackle, just better than below average.

 

 

[Acgott]

2 minutes ago, ny92jefferis said:

  It isn't like we need hall of famers to replace what we've got at tackle, just better than below average.

 

 

And that’s why we shouldn’t draft one at the #2 pick. We can find 2 or 3 average players, tag them with Pugh or Richburg and our OL is so much better. We don’t need that HOF player at the LT. The difference from the top OL player or offensive line to the 15th is so much smaller compared to the other positions.

[Ohbeejay]

You take Rosen or Darnold, and don't think twice about it. This is this the best opportunity we will have to get our future QB. 

[ny92mike]

2 minutes ago, Acgott said:

And that’s why we shouldn’t draft one at the #2 pick. We can find 2 or 3 average players, tag them with Pugh or Richburg and our OL is so much better. We don’t need that HOF player at the LT. The difference from the top OL player or offensive line to the 15th is so much smaller compared to the other positions.

Kinda jumped into that, but that was sarcasm about needing better than below average.  I think we need to sink as much money and talent into the offensive line as possible, we've seen what drafting poorly and not spending has gotten us. 

 

   

[ny92mike]

Is Webb just a draft casualty?  A wasted pick.

 

[Ohbeejay]

3 minutes ago, ny92jefferis said:

Is Webb just a draft casualty?  A wasted pick.

 

Probably.

[Acgott]

5 minutes ago, ny92jefferis said:

Kinda jumped into that, but that was sarcasm about needing better than below average.  I think we need to sink as much money and talent into the offensive line as possible, we've seen what drafting poorly and not spending has gotten us. 

 

   

OL is about chemistry. We need to sign some good/average players to compliment what we have. Looking to sign or draft the best players isn’t a good use of our resources.

Our OL is a disaster because we haven’t even thought about it. Flowers was terrible, yet we get him no competition or help. He’s been maybe average this year which is a major plus, but his technique is still a mess.

Hart and Jerry have always been below average players. We signed Fluker, but didn’t play him season was over.

Richburg got hurt, Pugh was playing musical chairs. We don’t need superstars, just average players and it will be all the difference.

[Acgott]

4 minutes ago, ny92jefferis said:

Is Webb just a draft casualty?  A wasted pick.

 

Yes, but so will most of our team. A new GM is going to want his own players.

[ny92mike]

12 minutes ago, Acgott said:

OL is about chemistry. We need to sign some good/average players to compliment what we have. Looking to sign or draft the best players isn’t a good use of our resources.

Our OL is a disaster because we haven’t even thought about it. Flowers was terrible, yet we get him no competition or help. He’s been maybe average this year which is a major plus, but his technique is still a mess.

Hart and Jerry have always been below average players. We signed Fluker, but didn’t play him season was over.

Richburg got hurt, Pugh was playing musical chairs. We don’t need superstars, just average players and it will be all the difference.

Man, I'm not saying we've got to have all stars at each position on the line but we need to be looking for better than average players.  With roughly 30 million to spend, drafting an offensive lineman this year shouldn't be out of the question or the realm of possibility.  If you don't think it's worth drafting in the first round, that's fine.  I know that you value talent in the trenches just as much as I do.  Every year, we've ever had a discussion about who to draft you've always said defensive end.  I just think that it's just as important to have equal talent on the line.

  

   

[Go_Giants]

1 hour ago, YogiBiz said:

Using the Cowboys and Eagles to give substance to your argument isn't the best of looks. Considering before they drafted "their guys", both teams built really good offensive lines. 

I really think we should look to fill the other wholes this team has before we start drafting QB's willie nillie, because that is how bad franchises are run and busts are made. I only want to go after a QB, when I know my team can help him succeed. The most impactful position on the field is QB, yes, but football is still a team game (unless your name is Aaron Rodgers, then you can take whatever they give you to the playoffs).

 

The Cowboys and Eagles are fine examples. The Cowboys got extremely lucky they found a QB that fits their system that they can win with. Is Dak a franchise QB, we seen with out Ezekiel he is not.  

For the Eagles they paid a high price to get Wentz and more importantly they found a franchise in the Cleveland browns that was dumb enough to trade with them.  The Giants are not the Cleveland Browns so hopefully we will not do what they did.

There is no harm in drafting your franchise QB now, sit him down a year and build the team up for him to win with in 2019. The harm in building the team up now is the better the team is the harder it will be to get a franchise QB.  

[Kip Smithers]

2 hours ago, Acgott said:

Oh it’s certainly not doom and gloom if we don’t go QB. Even if you don’t think Eli is done, he is 37 and has at MOST two seasons left. The opportunity to draft the top 1 or 2 quarterback is way too big to pass up if we think he’s our next QB. We won’t ever have the opportunity again. Its the right move.

Im absolutely against drafting any other Offensive player with the second pick. I don’t think the impact is there at OL and especially RB. OL relies so much on the other 4 on the line. We see the impact Joe Thomas has had on the Browns. The single OL just doesn’t have the same impact. 

If we don’t draft a QB, it should be pass rusher if the value is there.

Its a new era. It’s time for a new direction.

You can’t use the Browns as an example. If the value is there and it’s not too much of a reach I have no problem going that route by taking an OL. This Nelson guy from what I heard is arguably the best player in the draft.