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Early talk on the Giants offseason

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On 1/3/2018 at 2:21 PM, w4rrior723 said:

Darian Thompson was EXTREMELY disappointing. He might be the worst tackler I've ever seen in a Giants uniform, and his supposed strength as a "ballhawk" was nonexistent.

@w4rrior723- Gosh, whatever happened to this guy, anyone know? Seem to recall that he came in touted to the high heavens, and was going to be the athletic centerfielder free-safety complement to Landon Collins' in-the-box safety. Did the scouts miss the tackling deficiencies?

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@GMENNATION

How is QB 8/10. Eli is a 37 year QB coming off a below average year. We have seen nothing from Webb.

RB,WR,TE I would take down a point or two because of all the uncertainty espically TE. Let’s not put Engram in the 90 range after one year.

DL- no way it should be that high. With all the “talent” it should have been a lot more productive. I don’t care if the DE played 💯 of the snaps. 8.5 and 6.5 is disasterous for what we are playing them. 

CB- I’m not all doom and gloom there. I think with a new era we can save Apple. Apple won’t be close to his draft,  but he can be serviceable if he moves out from his mom. Jenkins should be back to his shut self as well. We can find a new slot CB in the draft or FA. Crockell played good as well.

 

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23 minutes ago, bzane said:

@Kip Smithers- How do you feel about that, Kip? Myself, I'm okay, in that his greatest issue is immaturity. Sort of a 21-year-old Momma's Boy, you know? But he still has physical tools, and, from a cost-effective standpoint, I'd rather they work with him and hope he grows up, instead of cutting a first-round draft pick so early in his career- and then watch him go straighten out and play well for another team.

I agree. He needs to move out of living with his mom. Find a teammate to live with. Or live alone. He can afford it

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24 minutes ago, bzane said:

@Kip Smithers- How do you feel about that, Kip? Myself, I'm okay, in that his greatest issue is immaturity. Sort of a 21-year-old Momma's Boy, you know? But he still has physical tools, and, from a cost-effective standpoint, I'd rather they work with him and hope he grows up, instead of cutting a first-round draft pick so early in his career- and then watch him go straighten out and play well for another team.

I like it because he’s young and still has room to grow. It’s been a strange season where he has behaved uncharacteristically. He’s a talented player and cutting him would just add another hole on a roster. You don’t just get rid of talent like that.

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On 1/6/2018 at 1:07 PM, bzane said:

@w4rrior723- Gosh, whatever happened to this guy, anyone know? Seem to recall that he came in touted to the high heavens, and was going to be the athletic centerfielder free-safety complement to Landon Collins' in-the-box safety. Did the scouts miss the tackling deficiencies?

This was basically his rookie year, and, while he started out really bad, he improved over the course of the season. Watch back the Chargers game if you want to see what he is capable of. After this season, my expectations of him overall definitely dropped, but he's not a lost cause yet. He can still be a solid safety next to LC. 

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With Reese gone and Wilks, a former LB coach, potentially being our new head coach, I think the LB deficiency that has plagued us for more than a decade may finally be fixed. I don't know of any other LBs in this year's draft besides that stud from Georgia, but i expect some investment will be made at that position, which is more than we could ever say Reese did. I'm going to watch more film in the coming weeks, but I know everyone would be blown away by how much of a difference a good LB would make in this defense. We haven't had a good LB since Antonio Pierce. 

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On 1/6/2018 at 1:03 PM, bzane said:

@GMENNATION  Great write-up, GMEN. Thought-provoking. One question: how do you feel about D.J. Fluker? I thought his powerful run-blocking was a revelation last year- the whole line seemed to play more physically when he was out there.

Thanks for the kind words @bzane. I would definitely bring him back, especially due to the state of the overall line. Would I give him a 4 year deal? No, but he proved enough to get another 2 year deal or so. We need to become more physical running football team, especially with Eli aging / a new QB coming in and needing time to develop. 

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On 1/6/2018 at 1:20 PM, Acgott said:

How is QB 8/10. Eli is a 37 year QB coming off a below average year. We have seen nothing from Webb.

QB is really only about the starter so Webb doesn't factor into the 8/10. This is just my opinion but I still have confidence in Eli. Not to be as good as he was in his prime but to win games for us if the game came down to him. I just don't place a lot of the losses from this year on him. He didn't have a good season by any means but I think he showed at times that he can still play at a high level in the right situation.

On 1/6/2018 at 1:20 PM, Acgott said:

RB,WR,TE I would take down a point or two because of all the uncertainty espically TE. Let’s not put Engram in the 90 range after one year.

Disagree with you on Engram. He was one of the most dangerous TEs in the league in his rookie year. Still has a lot he needs to work on but he passed the eye test for me. The others I can agree with you on but we have an all-world WR and a very solid #2. 

On 1/6/2018 at 1:20 PM, Acgott said:

DL- no way it should be that high. With all the “talent” it should have been a lot more productive. I don’t care if the DE played 💯 of the snaps. 8.5 and 6.5 is disasterous for what we are playing them. 

Definitely agree. Two components of why I gave them that grade: (1) they both had very bad years. I'm just betting on them not repeating that and being more like the rest of their careers. (2) they are run-first defenders so I'm not placing all of their value in sacks. Sacks are obviously very important and why the supporting cast is so important.

 

On 1/6/2018 at 1:20 PM, Acgott said:

CB- I’m not all doom and gloom there. I think with a new era we can save Apple. Apple won’t be close to his draft,  but he can be serviceable if he moves out from his mom. Jenkins should be back to his shut self as well. We can find a new slot CB in the draft or FA. Crockell played good as well.

 

I would agree with you about Apple based on his athletic ability but this is about his personal issues affecting his on-field performance. His handling of multiple situations this year were FAR worse than anything we've seen on this team, including the OBJ circus. His mom is not going anywhere. She is the most influential person in his life so I'm not sure why we'd bet on serviceable. Agreed on Cockrell and expect him to be back but I kept this post only to players already signed for next year. If/when they re-sign him, it definitely bumps my grade up a few points. The problem with CB is even if Jackrabbit returns to form, one guy is not enough. You need to be 3 CBs deep at minimum.

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1 hour ago, Madmike90 said:

The Bears just hired your TE coach Kevin Gilbride...any insight?

He gets a lot from scrubs. 

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On Apple, I find it really hard to believe he will drastically change his attitude, unless he gets put on the street. I predict more of the same from him, this year is the year for him. Either he improves or stays the same. If it's the latter, I think he's gone by the end of next season. 

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55 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

The Bears just hired your TE coach Kevin Gilbride...any insight?

@Madmike90 Well, gosh- Kevin Gilbride jr. is the son of Kevin Gilbride, who was the coordinator of an eccentric and unimpressive offense the Giants ran for years. Gilbride Senior was unflatteringly referred to as "Kill Drive" by disgruntled Giants' fans on this site and in other places; his offense featured a mysterious fondness for the "shotgun draw" which failed to fool opponents and could be counted on to gain anywhere from zero to minus-ten yards per attempt. There of course was some suggestion of nepotism in the son's hire as tight-end coach. Under Gilbride Junior's stewardship the Giants' tight ends were a pedestrian group, most of them unable either to block, get open, or catch many passes- some of them all of the above. Their best-known tight end from the Kevin Junior era was the baffling Larry Donnell, who had a couple of showy games early in his career, but who flattened out to being a disappointment. Occasionally Donnell would catch a pass and fall on his head, making the highlight films. He is remembered for being the World's Only 6'6", 270-lb. Tight End Who Could Not Block. 

Junior worked with the Giants young developmental tight ends, first Adrien Robinson, notoriously labelled "the Jason Pierre-Paul of Tight Ends" by the optimistic Jerry Reese, who had drafted him; and Will Tye, another athletic marvel undrafted out of Stony Brook. The only thing missing in Junior's work with the developmental projects was that they did not develop. They were however both pleasant young men.

Which is to say I would not expect the next Gronkowski to emerge on the Bears in the next few years, but you never know.

Best of luck, have always admired your posts.

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To be fair... Gillbride's offensive scheme doesn't seem all that horrible anymore after seeing Macadoo's in action..

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3 minutes ago, bzane said:

@Madmike90 Well, gosh- Kevin Gilbride jr. is the son of Kevin Gilbride, who was the coordinator of an eccentric and unimpressive offense the Giants ran for years. Gilbride Senior was unflatteringly referred to as "Kill Drive" by disgruntled Giants' fans on this site and in other places; his offense featured a mysterious fondness for the "shotgun draw" which failed to fool opponents and could be counted on to gain anywhere from zero to minus-ten yards per attempt. There of course was some suggestion of nepotism in the son's hire as tight-end coach. Under Gilbride Junior's stewardship the Giants' tight ends were a pedestrian group, most of them unable either to block, get open, or catch many passes- some of them all of the above. Their best-known tight end from the Kevin Junior era was the baffling Larry Donnell, who had a couple of showy games early in his career, but who flattened out to being a disappointment. Occasionally Donnell would catch a pass and fall on his head, making the highlight films. He is remembered for being the World's Only 6'6", 270-lb. Tight End Who Could Not Block. 

Junior worked with the Giants young developmental tight ends, first Adrien Robinson, notoriously labelled "the Jason Pierre-Paul of Tight Ends" by the optimistic Jerry Reese, who had drafted him; and Will Tye, another athletic marvel undrafted out of Stony Brook. The only thing missing in Junior's work with the developmental projects was that they did not develop. They were however both pleasant young men.

Which is to say I would not expect the next Gronkowski to emerge on the Bears in the next few years, but you never know.

Best of luck, have always admired your posts.

Much appreciated man...same to you.

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