Who do you want next at HC and GM?

[ET80]

My attempts to go into discussion about our off-season tend to revert into the hatred that is out there for Rick Smith and Bill O'Brien - rightfully so, neither of them have done a good job. So, I figured a thread on our next HC/GM would allow any other topic to not turn into a "fire the GM and HC" discussion.

So - pretty sure that O'Brien is on his way out, along with Romeo Crennel and Mike Vrabel (remember when he was a trendy HC option? Seems like long ago). Who are the guys you're hoping to get to lead the team? My thoughts:

Dabo Swinney, Clemson HC - this one is low hanging fruit, given our propensity of Clemson players. Dabo basically created the offense that got Deshaun Watson into position to run away with ROY/MVP this season, and would be able to run with that momentum and keep the O clicking. College coaches are already a risky proposition (Once upon a time, the guy we are firing was the hot topic in the college ranks) and Dabo seems to have some pretty good pull at Clemson, so it's going to take a pretty penny to get him giving up this spot (I think he's got a huge buyout as well, high seven figures). There is no promise he'd be able to fix our defense as well, which has tanked out and is an area in need of immediate attention. If you can pair Dabo with Gregg Williams (who has done a great job with the Cleveland defense in spite of the record - he also has distanced himself from the bounty scandal that brought him down at New Orleans) you could emerge from this mess as a better team.

Jim Schwartz, Eagles DC - At a glance, the Eagles are really ramping into a dynamic team, with Carson Wentz going full throttle towards an MVP. The defense is what has really spurned this change, a very opportunistic defense that is ranking in the top 10 in many categories. Thing is, he's doing this with a defense that lacks star power, no real stud to lean on. He runs a 4-3, but I think our core guys are truly scheme diverse - Clowney, McKinney, Mercilius, Watt, Cunningham, Reader - they'd be just as effective as 4-3 guys, so that's a non issue to me. You'd have to find an OC that can get the O going, but this would get our defense back on track to where it was.

Pat Shurmer, Vikings OC - Here's a guy who is an expert on making chicken salad out of chicken...well, yeah. Loses Teddy Bridgewater, brings in Sam Bradford to good results. Loses Bradford, brings in Case Keenum in for stellar results. Had Dalvin Cook moving at a great pace, loses him but doesn't lose a step with Latavias Murray and Jerrick McKinnon. Had late round pick Stefon Diggs going like an Antonio Brown clone until he got hurt; No worry, he turned to undrafted Adam Theilen and has him going at an All Pro pace. Shurmer has proven to be adept to an ever changing roster and gets the most out of anyone. Sure, Shurmer failed in Cleveland, but who doesn't fail in Cleveland?

I'll come back for GM options (however much of a pipe dream it is to see the Texans part ways with Cal's bestie) but will start here. Your thoughts?

[Texansfan713]

I might have to come back from GM options as well.

 

1. Dabo Swinney: It's too obvious.  You basically nailed the reason why I want him as HC.

2. David Shaw: I think he is ready to make the jump in the NFL.  He has experience in the league coaching Qb's and wr's with the Raiders and Ravens.  He was on some successful teams during his time in the NFL with those franchises.

3. Teryl Austin: DC for the Lions. What he has done with the Lions defense is amazing. I still don't get why he hasn't gotten a job yet. Before he took over the Lions defense they are terrible. The first year he took over he led them to being ranked number 2 in total defense. Here is his bio. 

http://www.detroitlions.com/team/coaches/teryl-austin/c1f399df-75c7-411c-b288-baa5f5f2a43c

 

[Apollo Stallion]

I have recognized the effort to move the dialogue forward from my one note song about firing Rick Smith, but as far as I'm concerned all other discussions are simply rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic until the fanbase, media, and ownership acknowledge that a $2.8 billion franchise should not be "rebuilt" an unprecedented 4th time in 11 years by the same General Manager who's failures, incompetence, and dereliction of duty have kept this franchise stuck in the same cycle of top end mediocrity and low end collapse every 4 years.  I've mentioned candidates before, but until critical mass is achieved by a fanbase long taken for granted by an owner perfectly content with an investment that has grown nearly five-fold in value largely though a fraudulent hidden tax naming rights deal, there really is no point since he is convinced there is inelastic demand for his product regardless of performance. 

The local media has been complicit in this whitewash for far too long and we have been irrelevant virtually since our inception, so national media scrutiny is non existent except when ownership inserts itself into the social activism firestorm further exhibiting how truly disconnected it is from its players and fans its business is built upon. Rick Smith has been groomed and protected by NFL ownership because he is a part of a program designed by owners to deflect attention from the lack of diversity at the executive level and his performance escapes scrutiny largely due to a concerted public relations strategy literally scripted into the gameday coverage (aka - that point in the coverage of every Texans game where Rick Smith appears next to Bill O'Brien alone in the owners box followed by a statement about what a great job he has done is as contrived and agenda filled as "Salute To Service" week).  So, sure, I'll get into a detailed discussion of replacement GM's, the second I start seeing any possible indication accountability exists for a GM who has come to be so secure in his position that he would intentionally sabotage a playoff team by dismantling an offensive line and secondary to further consolidate his power over a coach that was a threat to it.

[UKTexans]

56 minutes ago, Apollo Stallion said:

a $2.8 billion franchise should not be "rebuilt" an unprecedented 4th time in 11 years by the same General Manager

That's so scary when spelled out in black and white

[OzzyTexan]

Ok people PLEASE I'm begging you forget Dabo as an option. There is 0 chance he leaves clemson.. I mean he signed an 8 year extension in August!! He has no reason to leave and they are probably paying him more than we would anyway. There is just no chance so I don't know why y'all bother to bring him up... and the other names being thrown around so far (schwartz, shermur, shaw) are the exact reason we need to keep Bill O'brien. With O'Brien and Deshaun we were averaging 30+ points a game and they showed no signs of slowing. Whether that is just Deshaun greatness making O'Brien look good is irrelevant. It was working and to split them up would be silly. Give BoB one full season with Watson and then decide what kind of coach he is. There is no doubt this team is looking forward to next year already. The players like BoB and it shows in the way they are still playing. If you want to see a team quit on their coach watch a Giants game. O'Brien held this team together through some stuff (Duane, Deshaun, McNair) and they are still fighting.. thats a sign of a good coach. And I know we are 3-5 and not good but things were pretty good before we lost Watson.

[Pastor Dillon]

I'd stay away from college coaches except Dabo, but I agree he won't be coming. 

I'm torn between bringing in a 1st time young HC that can grow with our young team and bringing in an older proven coach that might fix our culture. 

I would prefer to build around an offensive minded coach. 

Its gonna be the top open job next year. Every coach is gonna want to come in and coach Watson. 

smith needs to get promoted so he's not making roster choices anymore. 

 

Honestly I like Josh Mcdaniels. I'm not interested in going down the same Patriots model we tried with BOB, but I remember him doing well with Tebow. Might even keep Vrabel as D Cord  

 

 

[Apollo Stallion]

Repost from earlier this season:

So if we want a break from the Patriots lineage, to me the other option is to go with the Packers line from which the Seahawks, Chiefs, and Raiders are built as well. If you want a "connected" name look to Eliot Wolf, son of Hall of Fame GM Ron Wolf.  Frankly, I cringe at the ridiculous nepotism in the NFL and these "grew up in the business" daddy-boy types like lil Shanny, but lil Wolfie has been working along-side best in the biz Ted Thompson for 13 years now and the Packers remain the model of team building thru smart scouting and drafting vs. team killing short cuts like we tried to make with Brock Osweiler.  Now Wolf is a Packer-lifer and the clear heir to Ted Thompson's thrown, but that presents other opportunities for those who know they have no path to the throne.

1) Ted Thompson himself - he's 64 and you kinda wonder if at some point he's nudged out for lil Wolfie.  He's a born Texan and went to SMU, so maybe that has some pull for a semi-retirement Football Czar role.

2)  Brian Gutekunst - Packers Dir of Pro Personnel - his focus has been college scouting which is the straw that stirs the Packers success.  If Wolf is living off his name and connections, there is usually a smart guy behind the scenes making the real decisions.  I hear he's the guy.

3) John Dorsey - former Chiefs GM (Packers Personnel) - basically the architect of their current success (43-21 w/3 playoffs) before being pushed out this year in an odd contract squabble / power struggle.  Basically came down to $ and not wanting to let Andy Reid do what he did in Philly which was let his on field success make him think he was a personnel guy. 

[Apollo Stallion]

Another repost from Sept.

Josh McDaniels makes too much sense.  He's always been the brains and chief innovator behind the New England offense, not some placeholder handed a playbook to let Brady execute like O'Brien (and Kubiak).  I'll give him a pass on the "retread" label since he was all of 33 when he got the Chiefs gig and well, you know a guy named Bill Belichick also get fired from his first HC gig.  The biggest challenge here is whether he's the "coach in waiting" when Belichick decides to hang it up, but that's kind of like saying someone is the heir apparent to Tom Brady - neither seems like they'll be going anywhere soon.  We've already gone halfway in on becoming New England-Southwest let's finish the job with a guy who can actually CREATE offenses that evolve with the talent on the team vs. O'Brien who has McDaniels 2007 binder and keeps putting square blocks into round holes.  McDaniels beat RAC's defense with Jacoby f.ng Brisset last year - give him an offseason to dream up creative ways to maximise Watson's talents and minimize the exposure from some of the dregs Smith has saddled us with.  The RAC/Vrabel tandem could certainly stick around which would maintain continuity with the strength of the team.  GM hire to come, but make no mistake - this would be McDaniel's team

[mse326]

It would never happen buy I want Saban. Give him HC and GM (or at least final say in personel and draft so he is the one "shopping for the groceries).

I'm not as low on his time in Miami as many and think it was confrontations with the FO that made him decide to leave rather than his frustration with "adult" professionals.

[Apollo Stallion]

Not buying the college guys:

See Saban, Spurrier, Petrino, Kelly.

Big time college coaches operate in a system heavily rigged in their favor.  Hell, Saban and Stoops even got to change the dang rule book because the spread offenses where mitigating their talent gaps on defense.  They get to rig schedules in their favor including playing fewer conference games (SEC) and bye weeks before every big game. They essentially get 20 first round picks every year and 8 games out of 12 are playing teams built on the college equivalent of late rounder and UDFAs.  They exercise complete control over players since they hold their scholarships (aka where they eat, sleep, and how they spend their free time via "academic oversight."). The threat of burying a player on the depth chart means virtually killing their chances of being a pro vs. NFL where you can just fake an injury for one team and be playing for another that week because you like the other QB more (gotta love those high character Bennett brothers). 

They have free labor, massive facilities advantages, pay assistants more than most head coaches, ridiculous home field advantages, and conference officials with a vested interest in getting their leagues best BCS candidates to the finish line for $7 million bonuses. Hell, it's got glorified figure skating "judging" to ensure it's power structure stays in tact including blatant game throwing to get conference members into the playoffs (2014 Alvarez orchestrated Wisconsin 59-0 tank job to get Ohio State to leapfrog Baylor & TCU).  Heck, imagine if the NFL just decided to pacify Jerry Jones by creating the Cowboys Network and giving him an extra $15 million in free cap space for the next 20 years.  Better still eliminate revenue sharing and the salary cap, sell off the rights to the AFC North and NFC East to ESPN and only Nike sponsored players get names and numbers on uniforms. 
 

[Apollo Stallion]

Basically, my point is that at a certain point, college coaching becomes like selling for a company in a stacked industry like a Ford Dealership, Miller Distrubuting, or Halliburton here in Texas.  Sure they probably distinguished themselves at some point to get hired (or daddy gave them job) and may be doing well compared to their predecessor or the guy with the Southern California territory, but after a dozen years selling Ford's that guy is going to have a real tough time selling Kia's.  I think you have to catch the college coaches at Urban Meyer at Utah stage or Saban at Michigan St.  At a certain point, I think the coaching talent and innovation vs. inherent advantanges of the product become difficult to distinguish. 

Is Bill O'Brien a great offensive mind because he has Deshaun Watson or an idiot with Savage?   If Urban Meyer puts Tom Savage behind an Ohio State line and lets him hand the ball to Zeke Elliott I'm betting his team still wins a national championship, but Urban Meyer wouldn't win any more games with Savage and this offensive line.  Bill O'Brien was Coach of the Year in the Big 10 in 2012 despite Meyer going undefeated in his first season because beating 6 Big 10 teams with Matt McGloin and the scraps left behind after Sandusky was more impressive than Meyer walking into Ohio State with a dozen NFL caliber recruits in hip pocket to go with 20 returning starters.

I'm not big on college to pro, but to me the profile is to catch the sweet spot between enough experience to prove you can excel, but before they get big enough that the machine kicks in.  Not big on the rah rah, 1 heartbeat, row the boat motivators at the Pro level, so no PJ Flecks.  The Briles/Leach air raid guys, are off as well.  To me, Chris Peterson at Washington is the one that checks the most good boxes without the bad.  Pro style, big but no too big, builds good staffs.  David Shaw at Stanford would also be high on my list and he brings a good deal of NFL experience - basically Bill O'Brien, except with 7 years of head coaching success vs. 2 (dude is a dead ringer for Rick Smith tho). I'd take Jim Harbaugh over Saban, Meyer, or Sweeney in a second, but recognize he makes at least DOUBLE O'Brien's salary and has a decade of job security.  Dabo checks some boxes, but he's at that decade mark and Bama machine before that, and rah rah Clemson rock stuff doesn't translate and personally I think another right wing deep south homophobic bible thumper on Kirby might be the wrong direction and could backfire profoundly. 

[tab]

I still like OB right now only because I think he's good at maximizing the potential in quarterbacks, and I liked what I saw with him and Watson. I dont like what we're seeing with Savage but perhaps this is just Savage at his maximum. OB has done better with QBs besides him and Brock, and the team likes him. I think this would be a bad year to get rid of him, considering everything else that has happened. 

[Pastor Dillon]

5 hours ago, tab said:

I still like OB right now only because I think he's good at maximizing the potential in quarterbacks, and I liked what I saw with him and Watson. I dont like what we're seeing with Savage but perhaps this is just Savage at his maximum. OB has done better with QBs besides him and Brock, and the team likes him. I think this would be a bad year to get rid of him, considering everything else that has happened. 

It's like you have never watched a Texans game. 

[tab]

2 hours ago, Pastor Dillon said:

It's like you have never watched a Texans game. 

oh i've seen so many. but what QB has left our team and done better, besides Case Keenum? I mean Bill make Hackenburg look serviceable

 

I'm sort of past the point where I'd say OB is ia QB guru, and this year has be a colossal failure and embarrassment from a planning standpoint every time Savage steps on the field, but I'd be ok giving him one more shot with Watson. 

[Texansfan713]

2 hours ago, tab said:

oh i've seen so many. but what QB has left our team and done better, besides Case Keenum? I mean Bill make Hackenburg look serviceable

 

I'm sort of past the point where I'd say OB is ia QB guru, and this year has be a colossal failure and embarrassment from a planning standpoint every time Savage steps on the field, but I'd be ok giving him one more shot with Watson. 

Let's see:

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick had a career year with the Jets

 

Im not gonna credit O Brien for making the offense serviceable with Watson.  Im pretty sure plenty of HCs could make their offense better to suit him.