Forge Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Nightime said: We’ll have to wait and see Alot of pressure on Lance to be better than Jimmy G, a guy who helped lead the 49ers to some deep playoff runs 100%. And there's a decent shot that he's not as good as Jimmy. And there's a really, really good shot that he's not as good as Jimmy this year. That's why QB purgatory QBs stick around for as long as they do - they aren't the easiest guy to replace, even if they often put you in a position where you want to take your shot to do so lol. I mean, there are a lot of guys out there who are very solid to good QBs and we just look at them like, "thats not the guy to consistently make you a super bowl contender". If Jimmy doesn't get hurt in 2020 and the team is just sitting there picking in the 20's, I dont think that this has played out the way it did. Even if Jimmy never became more than what he is. Him getting hurt and that team being bad put them in a position where they could potentially draft a guy. i think it's an uphill battle for Lance to succeed or be really good (especially independent of Shanny), but some of the things he needs to work on will actually probably take years to fix. Like, he needs to be more accurate. That's something that will 100% take time. He also needs to get more urgent. Faster. He need to start getting rid of the ball a quarter to a half second faster than he does. That's so big. The latter definitely takes time and I would expect to get somewhat better. The former is something that may never get where it needs to be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 Not high praise from Martz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 I don't think you can conclude much from that game. The field was too moist, and they kept throwing penalties at anybody who tried to dry it off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 5 hours ago, Forge said: 100%. And there's a decent shot that he's not as good as Jimmy. And there's a really, really good shot that he's not as good as Jimmy this year. That's why QB purgatory QBs stick around for as long as they do - they aren't the easiest guy to replace, even if they often put you in a position where you want to take your shot to do so lol. I mean, there are a lot of guys out there who are very solid to good QBs and we just look at them like, "thats not the guy to consistently make you a super bowl contender". If Jimmy doesn't get hurt in 2020 and the team is just sitting there picking in the 20's, I dont think that this has played out the way it did. Even if Jimmy never became more than what he is. Him getting hurt and that team being bad put them in a position where they could potentially draft a guy. i think it's an uphill battle for Lance to succeed or be really good (especially independent of Shanny), but some of the things he needs to work on will actually probably take years to fix. Like, he needs to be more accurate. That's something that will 100% take time. He also needs to get more urgent. Faster. He need to start getting rid of the ball a quarter to a half second faster than he does. That's so big. The latter definitely takes time and I would expect to get somewhat better. The former is something that may never get where it needs to be. The Andy Dalton line is no joke. It'll suck you in, and waste 6-8 years of your life. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 1 hour ago, notthatbluestuff said: Not high praise from Martz. Martz is the most picky and impatient coach ever, wouldn’t really care for his analysis on young QB’s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 On 9/12/2022 at 9:16 AM, malak1 said: It was, in fact, raining the entire time. I was at the game. On the TV broadcast, it wasn't raining during/ in the commercials, so... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 On 9/12/2022 at 10:04 AM, Forge said: Pretty much exactly where I'm at. I also diverge with Biggie on the idea that "sitting and learning" is somehow a boon that should have propelled him to greater heights when he got into the lineup. I'm a believer in playing the game is what develops you. There is a reason that people wanted Lance to play last year. His first season was always basically always going to punt your super bowl aspirations, just get it out of the way. The only time I typically would sit a guy would be for reasons that have nothing to do with improving the prospect. He's going to have to play better if he wants to stick in the NFL (the biggest problem is that he misses far too many layups...its notable) , but I'll definitely double down on the narrative not being him after this game (it's juicy and it will be the narrative, I'm sure, but he wasn't the primary or even secondary reason that they lost this game...Hell, I'd maybe blame Shanny for this one more than I would Lance). And I'm certain that I'm going to need a pretty decent sample size to really start to settle the foundation of the player he is. After this year, I'll have a decent idea of what I think of him moving forward will be, and after next year I think it'll have settled some. If there was ever a player that needed a year or two to evaluate, it's this guy most likely. I don't even necessarily disagree that his chances of succeeding are low. I think that they probably are not great given his actual skillset and lack of experience. But its weird to be throwing in the towel already or be adamant that he's just a bust. Development does happen. If you're making this game that big of a deal in terms of his long term place, I think you already had your mind set on what you wanted it to be. The trade is extremely questionable. They were so scared of people knowing they were doing work on the quarterbacks and trying to be so covert about it. Such a strange thing to be so scared about. Their draft history in the first two rounds, which I assume that Lynch / Shanny have more say over than the scouting guys such as Adam Peters, is brutal. The one "good" pick they've made is probably Deebo Samuel (I refuse to give them credit for Nick Bosa...it wasn't that hard lol). Aiyuk may be okay at some point, but they also traded up to get him when they could have sat and potentially had a choice between he, Pittman and Higgins. I think the old school thinking was something like 30 games before you knew if aQB had it or not. Probably different now given how different CFB is in terms of passing and offensive schemes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkwdw13 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 23 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Martz is the most picky and impatient coach ever, wouldn’t really care for his analysis on young QB’s. He also wasn't very good unless he had Hall of Famers all through out the offense, not saying he was part of good teams but he didn't put those offenses in position to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinSting Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 Check the list of Super Bowl winning head coaches. Will you find Mike Martz on the list? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, FinSting said: Check the list of Super Bowl winning head coaches. Will you find Mike Martz on the list? No. His offense did win Super Bowl 34 as an OC, but he has zero leadership what so ever, has always been known as an ahole, and is the most impatient/picky coach known to mankind, so his evaluation of young QBs developing is never a fair assessment. Edited September 14, 2022 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 10 minutes ago, FinSting said: Check the list of Super Bowl winning head coaches. Will you find Mike Martz on the list? No. Yeah, Mike Martz is definitely a chump. Anyone can be the OC and HC and run the greatest show on turf in their first 3 seasons as a coordinator and HC. Good call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) Harsh remarks from Martz, but at the same time Martz is still living in the early 2000's, and wants his QBs to be doing seven step drops on every snap, and refuse to utilize the tight end in the pass game at all. There's the funny story of what he was trying to do to Andre Woodson at the Senior Bowl. And maybe his memory is fading a bit, because he mentioned that he probably hasn't seen a QB have a worse opening game in regards to Fields, but his very own Kurt Warner in the 2003 opener fumbled six times, sacked six times, and threw an interception in a 23-13 loss to the Giants. And there was no rain that day. Edited September 14, 2022 by TecmoSuperJoe 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 13 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: Harsh remarks from Martz, but at the same time Martz is still living in the early 2000's, and wants his QBs to be doing seven step drops on every snap, and refuse to utilize the tight end in the pass game at all. There's the funny story of what he was trying to do to Andre Woodson at the Senior Bowl. And maybe his memory is fading a bit, because he mentioned that he probably hasn't seen a QB have a worse opening game in regards to Fields, but his very own Kurt Warner in the 2003 opener fumbled six times, sacked six times, and threw an interception in a 23-13 loss to the Giants. And there was no rain that day. It sounds like he's actually referring to Lance when it comes to the bolded. If you listen to the video about "worst opening game he's seen", his next comment is about how deflating it is to shut a team out in the first half and your QB can't score any points and how deflating it is. Talks about how the 49ers are a team without hope and then talks about going to Jimmy G. The graphic for whatever reason is showing Fields, but it looks pretty clearly like he's talking about Lance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Forge said: It sounds like he's actually referring to Lance when it comes to the bolded. If you listen to the video about "worst opening game he's seen", his next comment is about how deflating it is to shut a team out in the first half and your QB can't score any points and how deflating it is. Talks about how the 49ers are a team without hope and then talks about going to Jimmy G. The graphic for whatever reason is showing Fields, but it looks pretty clearly like he's talking about Lance. How can one judge either in that game with the conditions? It was the worst field I’ve seen since the MNF 3-0 Dolphin vs Steelers game in 2007. I’ve got high hopes for both Lance and Fields. Although Fields has more of an excuse this year with his high school level OL and school level WR unit. Edited September 14, 2022 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggie. Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 20 hours ago, BayRaider said: Martz is the most picky and impatient coach ever, wouldn’t really care for his analysis on young QB’s. He turned Kurt Warner from grocery store worker to Hall of Famer and made Marc Bulger look good for a couple of seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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