What should Dallas do at QB?

[Dallas94Ware]

5 hours ago, DaBoys said:

So your stance is 1st round QBs aren’t worth the risk. That’s quite the hot take considering the overwhelming evidence suggesting otherwise. I hope you have A/C under that rock

First round QBs have the talent. That Memphis kid. You probably remember back then how bad I was against Goff and Wentz, but wanted that Memphis kid so bad. He had all the traits that correlate to a special player. He just never developed. He was put on the field way too early in his development and put in an unfavorable situation.

I get what is being said, that for every Manning theres like 10 Blake Bortles and Truniskys. The thing is, situation has about as much to do with a Qb developing into a star as their talent does. Prescott stepped into a hell of a situation. That Memphis kid didnt. Goff. He had a good situation but his lack of star level traits gave him mixed results. Ssme with Wentz. 

Thing is, a lot of teams picking those high pick qbs are usually picking that high because their team sucks.

[Dallas94Ware]

Also, btw @DaBoysold buddy ..

I remember that 2018 QB draft class, and my long break down post about those QBs. Where I chose Lamar Jackson as probably the most star studded of them all when all is said and done, Rosen as the most likely bust...and Josh Allen as the highest risk highest reward of them all.

YOU however, absolutely corrected me, saying you believe Josh Allen will be the best of the class and possibly become one of the best in this era. I stupidly disagreed.

You my friend were 1 million percent right. (I am actually in Buffalo watching him right now..well, waiting on line for my.buffalo wings but you get the point)

Point being..I.owe you a beer.

(Yes i have a memory like a stubborn ol mule)

Edited September 20, 2022 by Dallas94Ware

[Rtnldave]

46 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said:

First round QBs have the talent. That Memphis kid. You probably remember back then how bad I was against Goff and Wentz, but wanted that Memphis kid so bad. He had all the traits that correlate to a special player. He just never developed. He was put on the field way too early in his development and put in an unfavorable situation.

I get what is being said, that for every Manning theres like 10 Blake Bortles and Truniskys. The thing is, situation has about as much to do with a Qb developing into a star as their talent does. Prescott stepped into a hell of a situation. That Memphis kid didnt. Goff. He had a good situation but his lack of star level traits gave him mixed results. Ssme with Wentz. 

Thing is, a lot of teams picking those high pick qbs are usually picking that high because their team sucks.

I disagree with the Wentz assessment. I lived in Philly when Wentz was drafted. Now, for a small school QB to be drafted that high with SB aspirations is one thing.

But Christ on Friday, the local news network ran like a 2 hour special on Wentz before he ever took a snap!

They had him crowned SB MVP, the next Brady, dynasty of the 2010's, etc!!!

I was like: "Holy hell, can the guy get on the frickin field!!!"

Philly is notoriuos for blowing a hugh draft picks horn long before the player ever gets on the field or court.

Eric Lindross, Ben Simmons, Claude Giroux, the list goes on and on.

Jesus, on the Anthony Gargano show, local radio, I remember him asking which player will have the bigger HOF career Simmons or Wentz and how many titles each will win.

Yeah, Philly is pathetic when it comes to celebrating players before they actually do anything.

[Dallas94Ware]

1 minute ago, Rtnldave said:

I disagree with the Wentz assessment. I lived in Philly when Wentz was drafted. Now, for a small school QB to be drafted that high with SB aspirations is one thing.

But Christ on Friday, the local news network ran like a 2 hour special on Wentz before he ever took a snap!

They had him crowned SB MVP, the next Brady, dynasty of the 2010's, etc!!!

I was like: "Holy hell, can the guy get on the frickin field!!!"

Philly is notoriuos for blowing a hugh draft picks horn long before the player ever gets on the field or court.

Eric Lindross, Ben Simmons, Claude Giroux, the list goes on and on.

Jesus, on the Anthony Gargano show, local radio, I remember him asking which player will have the bigger HOF career Simmons or Wentz and how many titles each will win.

Yeah, Philly is pathetic when it comes to celebrating players before they actually do anything.

Im not saying Wentz was or is a bad player. Even his worst seasons stats are pretty solid overall. He will be a starter in the NFL for a long time, albiet probably as a gap filler QB on mediocre teams looking to find a long term answer at the position.

But, on the flip side, he was drafted so high because he had good size, a good arm, and the prototype look and feel to him of a modern Qb complete with pocket mobility. But that whole prototype thing is gone in todays NFL. You can be 5' 10" and have an arm like a noodle and run a 6.5 40 time, and throw 40 scores in a season now. Ok maybe Im exagerating, but the point is valid about prototypes being dead.

Fact is, outside of those "prototype traits" there was nothing on film going into that draft that showed anything that made me believe he would be special. Ideally, at least for me, I want to see something out of the ordinary when Im picking a passer that high. Something that just sets the kid aside from the rest of the group. Wentz had that prototype look to him, but thats it. Goff? He really didnt either..it was another prototype look, with good size, a good arm, and maturity in how he conducted himself. That whole Drew Bledsoe thing is dead in this new era nfl. Needs to be something special.

That kid from Memphis (i really am blanking on his name) set himself aside to me on film with his escapability and accuracy on the move. He showed every trait Big Ben did coming out of Miami of Ohio. I still think Denver ruined him rushing him out to be their savior too early. He had special traits but was as raw as a french appetizer.  But those things happen, its very common in this impatient, cap driven NFL.

To stick with that same draft class, I was high on Dak for a similar reason - escapability and accuracy on the move usually turns into something really good at rhe next level. In fact, its almost a must have nowadays. I didnt think Dak would be as reliable as he was from day 1, but i knew he had a chance to be something because of those stand out traits.

Wentz landed in a great situation. And that near MVP season he had, he padded his stats with tons of slants, and then deep shots to a dominant deep ball receiver - Alshon Jeffrey - and relied on a hell of a pass rush to shut down opponents. Its GOOD COACHING to make your QB throw what he is best at, and that deep ball and hard quick throw to a slant was Wentz best attributes. Problem is, when defenses start to take that away, you need to be able to do something else, just as reliably. In Philly, he didnt. And it cost him his job to a passer with actual stand out, special traits - Hurts - whos running ability and really nice touch on throws between the LBs and Safeties has been his bread and butter in college, and now the NFL...and while not really rare traits anymore, he does them both well enough that it looks like Philly has answered their QB question for the forseeable future with a much cheaper option than Wentz had become.

[Rtnldave]

22 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said:

Im not saying Wentz was or is a bad player. Even his worst seasons stats are pretty solid overall. He will be a starter in the NFL for a long time, albiet probably as a gap filler QB on mediocre teams looking to find a long term answer at the position.

But, on the flip side, he was drafted so high because he had good size, a good arm, and the prototype look and feel to him of a modern Qb complete with pocket mobility. But that whole prototype thing is gone in todays NFL. You can be 5' 10" and have an arm like a noodle and run a 6.5 40 time, and throw 40 scores in a season now. Ok maybe Im exagerating, but the point is valid about prototypes being dead.

Fact is, outside of those "prototype traits" there was nothing on film going into that draft that showed anything that made me believe he would be special. Ideally, at least for me, I want to see something out of the ordinary when Im picking a passer that high. Something that just sets the kid aside from the rest of the group. Wentz had that prototype look to him, but thats it. Goff? He really didnt either..it was another prototype look, with good size, a good arm, and maturity in how he conducted himself. That whole Drew Bledsoe thing is dead in this new era nfl. Needs to be something special.

That kid from Memphis (i really am blanking on his name) set himself aside to me on film with his escapability and accuracy on the move. He showed every trait Big Ben did coming out of Miami of Ohio. I still think Denver ruined him rushing him out to be their savior too early. He had special traits but was as raw as a french appetizer.  But those things happen, its very common in this impatient, cap driven NFL.

To stick with that same draft class, I was high on Dak for a similar reason - escapability and accuracy on the move usually turns into something really good at rhe next level. In fact, its almost a must have nowadays. I didnt think Dak would be as reliable as he was from day 1, but i knew he had a chance to be something because of those stand out traits.

Wentz landed in a great situation. And that near MVP season he had, he padded his stats with tons of slants, and then deep shots to a dominant deep ball receiver - Alshon Jeffrey - and relied on a hell of a pass rush to shut down opponents. Its GOOD COACHING to make your QB throw what he is best at, and that deep ball and hard quick throw to a slant was Wentz best attributes. Problem is, when defenses start to take that away, you need to be able to do something else, just as reliably. In Philly, he didnt. And it cost him his job to a passer with actual stand out, special traits - Hurts - whos running ability and really nice touch on throws between the LBs and Safeties has been his bread and butter in college, and now the NFL...and while not really rare traits anymore, he does them both well enough that it looks like Philly has answered their QB question for the forseeable future with a much cheaper option than Wentz had become.

Well, the point of the QB position and "prototypes" being gone is valid. The entire dynamic of the position has changed so much that it has had a domino effect on other positions, namely RB.

I was in my 20s when I got to see E. Smith, B. Sanders, T. Thomas, and a host of other great backs. It was so much fun to see an O Line blow open a hole and anticipate the back hitting it in stride, break into the secondary and go for 10, 15, 20 yards.

I miss that element in the game today.

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

3 hours ago, DaBoys said:

We keeping bringing up Goff and Wentz like they are the absolute worst. But both have made it to the SB, both looked better this year than Dak did against TB, and both have a QBR over 100 after 2 games this year. Dak left the TB game with a 47 QBR. 
 

God forbid we risk drafting a Carson Wentz for a chance at Josh Allen. We’d be totally screwed like we are now. 

Yeah.

You can lose drafting any position in the first round. But trying to find a QB in the first round is like flipping a coin. Trying to find one later is like playing the lottery. 

[TVScout]

14 hours ago, Dallas94Ware said:

That kid from Memphis

Paxton Lynch lacked competitive spirit.

[Dallas94Ware]

2 hours ago, TVScout said:

Paxton Lynch lacked competitive spirit.

I cant speak to that. Ive never been at practice with him. What I can say with certainty is that he stepped into a horrid situation for a rookie - poor blocking, poor run game, a coaching transition, and a defense going through a face lift. Unless you are a more polished prospect, like Trevor Lawrence for instance, you are simply not going to play well at all in that situation.

[quiller]

On 9/19/2022 at 2:52 PM, DaBoys said:

We keeping bringing up Goff and Wentz like they are the absolute worst. But both have made it to the SB, both looked better this year than Dak did against TB, and both have a QBR over 100 after 2 games this year. Dak left the TB game with a 47 QBR. 
 

God forbid we risk drafting a Carson Wentz for a chance at Josh Allen. We’d be totally screwed like we are now. 

I think we on the same page only even if you draft what you consider the next Mahomes, Allen or whom ever there is no guarantee that he will work out for your team.  I still believe if Mahomes had gone to say Jacksonville, Houston and started as a rook or a similar terrible situation we would not be talking about Mahomes being the elite QB he is. Mahomes learned it seemed a lot about being a starting NFL QB sitting a year behind Smith.

[TVScout]

7 hours ago, Dallas94Ware said:

I cant speak to that. Ive never been at practice with him. What I can say with certainty is that he stepped into a horrid situation for a rookie - poor blocking, poor run game, a coaching transition, and a defense going through a face lift. Unless you are a more polished prospect, like Trevor Lawrence for instance, you are simply not going to play well at all in that situation.

Sounds like Troy.

[TVScout]

Conflicting Reports Surround Paxton Lynch's Work Ethic with Broncos | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

[D82]

I'm not opposed to moving on from Dak if the right prospect was available. 

I'm just saying...given what the front office has done to Romo and now to Dak (surrounding with poor coaching because Jerry wants a "yes man", not fielding the best team possible while using the salary cap as an excuse, etc.)...I'm not confident the results wouldn't be the same even if they landed the next Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Tom Brady, etc. Because even those guys needed some time and the right amount of coaching to turn into who they are now. 

[DaBoys]

2 hours ago, D82 said:

I'm not opposed to moving on from Dak if the right prospect was available. 

I'm just saying...given what the front office has done to Romo and now to Dak (surrounding with poor coaching because Jerry wants a "yes man", not fielding the best team possible while using the salary cap as an excuse, etc.)...I'm not confident the results wouldn't be the same even if they landed the next Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Tom Brady, etc. Because even those guys needed some time and the right amount of coaching to turn into who they are now. 

What an odd conclusion you’ve drawn…

Tony Romo was an UDFA who sat for 3.5 years and developed. Dak was a 4th round pick who was able to develop on one of the best rosters in football while he was 23rd in the league in passing attempts.

He threw less passes his rookie year than guys like Trever Siemian and Brock Osweiler. One could argue the Cowboys have been the best team in the league over the last two decades at developing undesirable QB prospects. 
 

Not sure how you can look at Romo and Dak and say Geez the Cowboys have no shot developing an actual blue chipper

Edited September 21, 2022 by DaBoys

[D82]

6 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

What an odd conclusion you’ve drawn…

Tony Romo was an UDFA who sat for 3.5 years and developed. Dak was a 4th round pick who was able to develop on one of the best rosters in football while he was 23rd in the league in passing attempts.

He threw less passes his rookie year than guys like Trever Siemian and Brock Osweiler. One could argue the Cowboys have been the best team in the league over the last two decades at developing undesirable QB prospects. 
 

Not sure how you can look at Romo and Dak and say Geez the Cowboys have no shot developing an actual blue chipper

I was referring to the fact they fail to put the pieces in place for a good QB to capitalize on. It’s a team game, and even a HOF QB won’t produce and win championships if he doesn’t have guys around him. 

[DaBoys]

34 minutes ago, D82 said:

I was referring to the fact they fail to put the pieces in place for a good QB to capitalize on. It’s a team game, and even a HOF QB won’t produce and win championships if he doesn’t have guys around him. 

Well I disagree plenty there as well. This year? Sure. Yes I believe you are right. The off-season was horrible and we got worse on offense. 
 

But for the most part Dallas has once again been one of the better teams in the league at putting together a competitive roster. 

In 2016, Dak had everything a QB could want, and since that time we have spent a 1st on WR Amari Cooper, and 1st on WR CD Lamb, a 3rd on WR Michael Gallup, a 4th on TE Dalton Shultz, a 2nd on OG Connor Williams, a 4th on RB Tony Pollard etc… 

Dak has been given plenty of weapons and is 1-3 in the playoffs. His Chemistry with Dez Bryant is well documented, and now there’s rumors that him and Amari Cooper got into it and that’s why we shipped him off for literally nothing.

Dak had something going on with Dez and Amari and both WRs are gone now. But it’s the FOs fault for not getting him weapons? 

It may be a team game but the QB touches the ball every play. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by DaBoys