Wide Receiver Outlook

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

1 minute ago, Norm said:

Holy crap Jordy got 150 two years ago? Had to be among the leaders. Seems so long ago that would have been the case somehow.

I didn't want to talk about 2017.  I don't like to remember that season LOL.

I just don't know how to dissect out the Brett Hundley effect from the stats.

[JQ1]

I don’t know if Cobb is a step slower or not, but he’s still a good player and a defense has to account for him.

I’m counting on one or more of these young guys stepping up and providing a deep threat for the Packers. And there’s also Montgomery to throw into the mix as wild card. Philbin will find different ways to deploy him, and if he can stay on the field, he’ll add even more firepower to that wide receiver fleet.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

1 hour ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I agree, but at the time he was signed he was the number two option, so Cobb had leverage on them.

That being said, I am not sure they have been using him to his full potential. His targets are way down from 2014.  He still has a very high catch rate on his targets.   In 2016, Nelson and Adams got 273 targets on 401 attempts.  That didn't leave much for Cobb and Cook.  I am sure that Adams will get a lot of targets this year, but losing Nelson's 150 targets from 2016 may make more available to Cobb.  I don't see Graham getting more than 100 targets.  I would guess there will be better balance this year.

My bad- should have been 273 targets for Adams and Nelson on 620 attempts- Cobb had 84 in 2016

Looking up Jimmy Graham's targets in New Orleans, after his first year he had between 125 and 149 targets, so conceivably he could draw more than 100.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out, and whether the targets are more balanced this year if the players can stay healthy.

[SSG]

1 hour ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I agree, but at the time he was signed he was the number two option, so Cobb had leverage on them.

That being said, I am not sure they have been using him to his full potential. His targets are way down from 2014.  He still has a very high catch rate on his targets.   In 2016, Nelson and Adams got 273 targets on 401 attempts.  That didn't leave much for Cobb and Cook.  I am sure that Adams will get a lot of targets this year, but losing Nelson's 150 targets from 2016 may make more available to Cobb.  I don't see Graham getting more than 100 targets.  I would guess there will be better balance this year.

You get targets when you get open.  Cobb isn't all that great at getting open.  Over the last 3 years we've seen Cobb covered by LBs with success on way too many occasions.  He's not overly fast, has no size and struggles terribly when contested.  He's more of a broken play WR who is going to struggle in more occasions than not to beat the guy across from him.  He's not a guy you can force the ball to with all that much success given his difficulties with contested catches.

While he may only be 27, he plays like a guy who's 4 or 5 years older IMO.  I refuse to believe that it's a deficiency at QB that is keeping Randall Cobb back.  

[SSG]

10 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

My bad- should have been 273 targets for Adams and Nelson on 620 attempts- Cobb had 84 in 2016

Looking up Jimmy Graham's targets in New Orleans, after his first year he had between 125 and 149 targets, so conceivably he could draw more than 100.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out, and whether the targets are more balanced this year if the players can stay healthy.

That's assuming Jimmy Graham is the same sort of athlete that he was 5 years ago. Given what we seen last year, that is pretty large assumption IMO.  

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

18 minutes ago, SSG said:

You get targets when you get open.  Cobb isn't all that great at getting open.  Over the last 3 years we've seen Cobb covered by LBs with success on way too many occasions.  He's not overly fast, has no size and struggles terribly when contested.  He's more of a broken play WR who is going to struggle in more occasions than not to beat the guy across from him.  He's not a guy you can force the ball to with all that much success given his difficulties with contested catches.

While he may only be 27, he plays like a guy who's 4 or 5 years older IMO.  I refuse to believe that it's a deficiency at QB that is keeping Randall Cobb back.  

 

16 minutes ago, SSG said:

That's assuming Jimmy Graham is the same sort of athlete that he was 5 years ago. Given what we seen last year, that is pretty large assumption IMO.  

Deficiency of the QB???  Where is that coming from?  

McCarthy has frequently talked about the importance of attacking the perimeter, so it is no surprise that the majority of the targets are to the guys that play there.  Cobb in the slot is just not the first read in the scheme, and often is more of a check down, or a clear out route to draw defenders his way.  I don't share your pessimism about his ability to get open.

We will see what happens.  I see different things than you do when I watch Graham in Seattle vs Graham in New Orleans.  I don't see him getting 1200 yds like he did in New Orleans, but I also don't think he needs to for us to be successful on offense.  I think McCarthy will use him much better than Pete Carroll did, and still can be quite effective for what the Packers need.

[SSG]

4 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

 

Deficiency of the QB???  Where is that coming from?  

McCarthy has frequently talked about the importance of attacking the perimeter, so it is no surprise that the majority of the targets are to the guys that play there.  Cobb in the slot is just not the first read in the scheme, and often is more of a check down, or a clear out route to draw defenders his way.  I don't share your pessimism about his ability to get open.

We will see what happens.  I see different things than you do when I watch Graham in Seattle vs Graham in New Orleans.  I don't see him getting 1200 yds like he did in New Orleans, but I also don't think he needs to for us to be successful on offense.  I think McCarthy will use him much better than Pete Carroll did, and still can be quite effective for what the Packers need.

Because fans are talking about Cobb's production being a result of a lack of targets.  Insinuating that he's always running free and that Aaron Rodgers is just missing an open receiver.  

You get targets when you get open.  Randall Cobb isn't all that great at getting open IMO.  Over the last 3 years, he's played more offensive snaps than Adams so his lack of production isn't because of a lack of opportunity. 

Mike McCarthy's usage of Graham will depend on Graham's health and athletic ability.  If he's the guy who couldn't get separation against LBs like seen last year, I     don't see us forcing the bay to him just for the sake of forcing the ball to him.  Whether it was injuries or not, JimmY Graham was horrid last year in-between the 20's and were going to have to see a vastly improved player if he's going to meet the outlandish expectations (someone said that 2018 Jimmy Graham was the best receiving weapon Aaron Rodgers has ever had).

[Mazrimiv]

23 hours ago, SSG said:

You get targets when you get open.  Cobb isn't all that great at getting open.  Over the last 3 years we've seen Cobb covered by LBs with success on way too many occasions.  He's not overly fast, has no size and struggles terribly when contested.  He's more of a broken play WR who is going to struggle in more occasions than not to beat the guy across from him.  He's not a guy you can force the ball to with all that much success given his difficulties with contested catches.

While he may only be 27, he plays like a guy who's 4 or 5 years older IMO.  

1

Agree with pretty much all of this.  The suddenness that made Cobb tough to cover in his early years is a distant memory.

[Shanedorf]

[Shanedorf]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/07/31/rookie-wr-marquez-valdes-scantling-attempts-to-master-packers-playbook/

"Valdes-Scantling attended a football camp in Tampa before training camp where receivers were taught the X’s and O’s of their sport. With a playbook in hand, Valdes-Scantling went into the camp to learn not just what he does on an individual route on each play, but what the entire offense is doing, what the protections are and who the first, second and third reads are for the quarterback.

Valdes-Scantling said he wanted to learn the entire Packers’ offense rather than focusing solely on his particular routes,” Cohen wrote. “His goal was to understand the totality of each page in the playbook — from the offensive linemen’s responsibilities to the running backs to the tight ends — before moving to the next entry, and he accomplished this by drawing each play by hand. He’s redrawn the entire playbook three times since the Packers drafted him in April.”

[incognito_man]

He's just making himself uncuttable. Cant cut the rain man once he's seen the playbook. It'd be like printing copies for the enemy.

[Norm]

Nah. He's hurting for money. I bought one of the three copies on eBay.

[Shanedorf]

36 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Cant cut the rain man once he's seen the playbook.

 

MVS:     " I'm an excellent Driver"

 

[{Family Ghost}]

On 7/30/2018 at 5:57 PM, JQ1 said:

I don’t know if Cobb is a step slower or not, but he’s still a good player and a defense has to account for him.

I’m counting on one or more of these young guys stepping up and providing a deep threat for the Packers. And there’s also Montgomery to throw into the mix as wild card. Philbin will find different ways to deploy him, and if he can stay on the field, he’ll add even more firepower to that wide receiver fleet.

I'm kind of thinking that replacing Edgar Bennett with Joe Philbin will bring some new wrinkles to the offense that will help create some space for Cobb.  The offseason ankle surgery that Cobb had could also lead to positive impact on the field.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

13 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/07/31/rookie-wr-marquez-valdes-scantling-attempts-to-master-packers-playbook/

"Valdes-Scantling attended a football camp in Tampa before training camp where receivers were taught the X’s and O’s of their sport. With a playbook in hand, Valdes-Scantling went into the camp to learn not just what he does on an individual route on each play, but what the entire offense is doing, what the protections are and who the first, second and third reads are for the quarterback.

 

Valdes-Scantling said he wanted to learn the entire Packers’ offense rather than focusing solely on his particular routes,” Cohen wrote. “His goal was to understand the totality of each page in the playbook — from the offensive linemen’s responsibilities to the running backs to the tight ends — before moving to the next entry, and he accomplished this by drawing each play by hand. He’s redrawn the entire playbook three times since the Packers drafted him in April.”

 

This sounds like dedication. Hopefully it translate onto the field. Chance favors the prepared mind!