Wide Receiver Outlook

[craig]

To some degree, if Kumerow and Yancey aren't that different in value, you could waive them both.  Maybe both clear and you keep the one you like best; maybe one gets snagged and you're happy with whichever is left.  Don't think odds are high at all the BOTH guys will get claimed.  

Leader, not sure how it went with Kumerow.  But year one he was a small-school development guy; why would a team waste a 53-spot on a guy who was an easy PS guy?  I have the feeling that last year, did he maybe get injured or something?  At some point, either before cut-downs or else after some time on the PS, he had injury.  Then with New England, again I'm not sure he was 100% healthy yet, plus then needed to get Bennett!  Not sure I've got any of the details; but I think there might be a narrative he never was a healthy-release last year?  

[MantyWrestler]

32 minutes ago, palmy50 said:

Yancey isn't for everyone. Bunch of teams pulled him down last year for a few different reasons. I'd like the odds of stashing him a bit more than the odds of stashing Kumerow even though Yancey is a little more talented IMO. 

 So glad to have you back palmy. 

 What do you think the odds either Kumerow or Yancey could or will replace Cobb this year  and with that potential he be an improvement with their speed and athletic ability over a player like  Cobb who is clearly nearing the end? 

[CWood21]

6 hours ago, palmy50 said:

I'd probably put Yancey in that same conversation at this point. Maybe even Davis. I don't keep any of those four at the cost of losing one of these talented rookies. All four of those guys are able NFL talents though. Very different players that all bring something different to the table with their skillsets too. It's more about what you want than a talent gap between Allison, Kum, Davis, and Yancey. 

Probably.  But I'm not giving Yancey much of a chance to win that spot.  I don't think he's got the NFL-ready production ability that Geronimo could provide, and I'm not sure he's got that "upside" that Kumero has.  Yancey needs to outplay the young guys if he wants to put his mark, and I don't think I've seen that yet.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

The Packer's passing offense is complex and not made for rookies to excel in. The Packers need, IMHO, at a minimum 4 veteran receivers who know where they need to be and how to get there and get there on time. Rodgers is making decisions in time calibrated in tenths of seconds. He has to trust his receivers. He doesn't have time to wait and see if they're going to be where they're supposed to be on time. That complexity means Adams, Cobb, and Allison are locks. The fourth vet looks like a battle between Davis, Kumerow, and Yancey. So far Kumerow has shown himself to be the most knowledgeable receiver, and the guy with Rodger's trust, so give him the edge in this group. Then there are the three rookies. That makes 7 with Yancey to the practice squad. 

I admit I still have grave concerns about Moore's hands. I read somewhere that he was benched his junior year because of so many dropped passes. Then his senior year he worked his way back into the starting lineup. Now we're seeing a lot of drops again. The next three games will be critical. He has to show he can hold onto the ball. Height, speed, etc., none of that matters if he drops the ball. If he earns a reputation of dropping passes, I doubt he would be claimed and would be safe on the PS. That would open a roster spot for someone else, Yancey? Boyle? Day? 

[CWood21]

3 hours ago, Arthur Penske said:

What has ESB done so far to get cut? Be 6'5, fast, and catch everything thrown his way in the preseason games/practices?

I think it has more to do with what he hasn't done.  The fact that J'Mon Moore was drafted in the 4th round probably gives him the heads up over ESB, if they're competing for that same spot.  When you're a late round pick, you have to stand out.  I don't think he's stood out just yet.

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, palmy50 said:

Tough call. Glad it's not mine!

Can you really justify carrying 7 WRs if only one of them provides ST value?  I haven't really crunched numbers yet on this year's rosters, but I believe we had a year where we expected the Packers to carry 7 WRs and they opted for only 5 WRs.

[CWood21]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

The Packer's passing offense is complex and not made for rookies to excel in. The Packers need, IMHO, at a minimum 4 veteran receivers who know where they need to be and how to get there and get there on time. Rodgers is making decisions in time calibrated in tenths of seconds. He has to trust his receivers. He doesn't have time to wait and see if they're going to be where they're supposed to be on time. That complexity means Adams, Cobb, and Allison are locks. The fourth vet looks like a battle between Davis, Kumerow, and Yancey. So far Kumerow has shown himself to be the most knowledgeable receiver, and the guy with Rodger's trust, so give him the edge in this group. Then there are the three rookies. That makes 7 with Yancey to the practice squad. 

I admit I still have grave concerns about Moore's hands. I read somewhere that he was benched his junior year because of so many dropped passes. Then his senior year he worked his way back into the starting lineup. Now we're seeing a lot of drops again. The next three games will be critical. He has to show he can hold onto the ball. Height, speed, etc., none of that matters if he drops the ball. If he earns a reputation of dropping passes, I doubt he would be claimed and would be safe on the PS. That would open a roster spot for someone else, Yancey? Boyle? Day? 

We really don't play much more than 3 WR sets, so unless you're projecting injuries you only really need 3 vet WRs.

[Kenrik]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

We really don't play much more than 3 WR sets, so unless you're projecting injuries you only really need 3 vet WRs.

Didn't Mike and Joe re-tool the offensive play book? When Joe was around we ran lots of 5 wide and I saw that a few times in the Tennessee game. I'm not sure if the 5 wide was ran so much in the past because there was a lot of talent there or Joe loves it.

[CWood21]

6 minutes ago, Kenrik said:

Didn't Mike and Joe re-tool the offensive play book? When Joe was around we ran lots of 5 wide and I saw that a few times in the Tennessee game. I'm not sure if the 5 wide was ran so much in the past because there was a lot of talent there or Joe loves it.

I think they took it back to the basic.  And I'm talking about their standard formations.  They didn't run a ton of 4 WR sets, and even less 5 WR sets.  I'm not saying they didn't throw that wrinkle out there, but overall they didn't use it as a staple of their offense.

[OneTwoSixFive]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

The Packer's passing offense is complex and not made for rookies to excel in. The Packers need, IMHO, at a minimum 4 veteran receivers who know where they need to be and how to get there and get there on time. Rodgers is making decisions in time calibrated in tenths of seconds. He has to trust his receivers. He doesn't have time to wait and see if they're going to be where they're supposed to be on time. That complexity means Adams, Cobb, and Allison are locks. The fourth vet looks like a battle between Davis, Kumerow, and Yancey. So far Kumerow has shown himself to be the most knowledgeable receiver, and the guy with Rodger's trust, so give him the edge in this group. Then there are the three rookies. That makes 7 with Yancey to the practice squad. 

I admit I still have grave concerns about Moore's hands. I read somewhere that he was benched his junior year because of so many dropped passes. Then his senior year he worked his way back into the starting lineup. Now we're seeing a lot of drops again. The next three games will be critical. He has to show he can hold onto the ball. Height, speed, etc., none of that matters if he drops the ball. If he earns a reputation of dropping passes, I doubt he would be claimed and would be safe on the PS. That would open a roster spot for someone else, Yancey? Boyle? Day? 

Alternatively, you could count Graham as a fourth receiver vet, although he counts as a TE. So him, Allison, Cobb, Adams are your 4, which allows you to keep 3/4 young receivers, depending on whether you keep 6 or 7 after the cutdown. If you keep MVS and ESB because of their height/speed, and Moore because of his perceived talent (4th round pick), you have no spots left on a 6 WR squad (I'm guessing MVS can be a returner in place of Davis, though that is a projection).

Then the fight is between Yancey and Kumerow  is for a 7th spot, should one be available. This is my very early projection, and might change a good deal once some more preseason games are played.

I don't think Moore lasts on the PS, even if he does drop some balls in preseason, so it's keep him, or expect to lose him.

I'd agree with most of what @palmy50 said, though I'd put a little more weight on keeping Allison (at least for one year) because of his experience and reliable catching. Davis is a difficult choice. I'd try and replace him, but I can see why he might be kept.

[Arthur Penske]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

I think it has more to do with what he hasn't done.  The fact that J'Mon Moore was drafted in the 4th round probably gives him the heads up over ESB, if they're competing for that same spot.  When you're a late round pick, you have to stand out.  I don't think he's stood out just yet.

He's stood out plenty to make the team.

[palmy50]

2 hours ago, JBURGE said:

Hearing you say that Yancey is more talented than anyone was like a kick in the nuts. I don't see anything with that guy

I think he's talented. But talent is not enough at this level. Many, myself included, questioned his willingness to do what it would take that year in his draft process. Then he goes and shows up for camp last year at a very sloppy 227lbs. He's also a hair stiff and a bit straight line-ish.

That said, he's a very smart/tough guy that can go get it. His numbers will play much better with the pounds off also. I mean, Yancey was a low 4.5 guy in the 220's. I'm sure he's well into the 4.4's when he's in shape. I don't see an elite talent but he is talented. LIS, I'd probably place him a click above Kumerow in terms of god given undeveloped ability. 

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

He's stood out plenty to make the team.

We're talking about to separate him from the other guys competing for the same spots.

[JBURGE]

2 minutes ago, palmy50 said:

I think he's talented. But talent is not enough at this level. Many, myself included, questioned his willingness to do what it would take that year in his draft process. Then he goes and shows up for camp last year at a very sloppy 227lbs. He's also a hair stiff and a bit straight line-ish.

That said, he's a very smart/tough guy that can go get it. His numbers will play much better with the pounds off also. I mean, Yancey was a low 4.5 guy in the 220's. I'm sure he's well into the 4.4's when he's in shape. I don't see an elite talent but he is talented. LIS, I'd probably place him a click above Kumerow in terms of god given undeveloped ability. 

work ethic and drive is what sets him and Kumerow apart then.

With the game coming up I'm sure you had a chance to peek at our first pre-season game, any thoughts on how the rooks looked? I know you've been pretty positive about the on field stuff for all of them

[palmy50]

1 minute ago, JBURGE said:

work ethic and drive is what sets him and Kumerow apart then.

With the game coming up I'm sure you had a chance to peek at our first pre-season game, any thoughts on how the rooks looked? I know you've been pretty positive about the on field stuff for all of them

It was the first I've seen MVS on the field with an NFL arm talent and all I could say was WOW over and over. That kid might be a true find. Strokes to that staff for pulling the trigger on him. A bunch of us really just didn't know what he was really. Hard film to evaluate for many reasons.

My issue with EQ was never on the field. He's clearly a premium talent. LIS, if you can make him work in the room your gonna have a player there. Most pro ready of the group with plenty of upside.

J'Mon was a kid I loved in the room. Love his aggressive play style also. That said, I also felt he was easily the most raw of the three rookies. The growing process can be a tough one for passionate kids like that too.