The Ongoing Offensive Line Thread

[jimkelly02]

15 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I think you might be into something there! The combination of over drafting and then chopping and changing systems, like with Mitchell he’s not really a cover safety then maybe being asked to play in a two high which he’s not suited to then whilst he’s still young having a few systems a coordinators is a recipe for failure. He goes to Pittsburgh where they’ve had the same or similar system for ages and they know how to use him and he has a long and productive career, I really liked him too after we drafted him.

Same with Arden Key really, apparently he said Paul Guenther told him not to rush certain ways and of course he was used as a base end when now with the Jags he’s a rotation rush specialist and getting production. I think we wanted him to put on mass too which was a mistake. Ferrell has been similar where he’s changed body mass a few times and been used in different ways and it’s a recipe for failure, though of course he was over drafted too. Ward I hated as a pick though he needed a system and development and whilst he was way over drafted we failed at developing him also. Shelby Harris has been a good player for years at an area of real weakness for us, as did Autry so we really missed on those two. 

To think we paid Justin Ellis and let Autry walk, smh.  
I think Autry is actually still under rated around league:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AutrDe00.htm
 

We released Harris to make room on the roster for UDFAs

https://www.silverandblackpride.com/platform/amp/2016/5/16/11685730/shelby-harris-says-hes-been-cut-by-oakland-raiders

its bad enough we make those moves but then when you consider the reasoning or circumstances it’s way worse

My boss has a saying… “don’t duck up a wet dream”.  That’s what I think of when looking at our FO.

Edited January 8, 2023 by jimkelly02

[Jeremy408]

15 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I think you might be into something there! The combination of over drafting and then chopping and changing systems, like with Mitchell he’s not really a cover safety then maybe being asked to play in a two high which he’s not suited to then whilst he’s still young having a few systems a coordinators is a recipe for failure. He goes to Pittsburgh where they’ve had the same or similar system for ages and they know how to use him and he has a long and productive career, I really liked him too after we drafted him.

Same with Arden Key really, apparently he said Paul Guenther told him not to rush certain ways and of course he was used as a base end when now with the Jags he’s a rotation rush specialist and getting production. I think we wanted him to put on mass too which was a mistake. Ferrell has been similar where he’s changed body mass a few times and been used in different ways and it’s a recipe for failure, though of course he was over drafted too. Ward I hated as a pick though he needed a system and development and whilst he was way over drafted we failed at developing him also. Shelby Harris has been a good player for years at an area of real weakness for us, as did Autry so we really missed on those two. 

When you're defensive sorry you can't have specialists. everyone has to be an every down player

Edited January 8, 2023 by Jeremy408

[jimkelly02]

4 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

When you're defensive sorry you can't have specialists. everyone has to be an every down player

Idk about that.  There’s the same number of roster spots (within 1-2) on every defense.  In the past we’d carry scrub rub defenders (Josh Mauro types) so it actually makes sense to have specialists like Key has become.

 

Edit:

i get what your saying after a few minutes I think: you mean we were so devoid of talent it pushed Key into being a starter?

Edited January 8, 2023 by jimkelly02

[Jeremy408]

1 minute ago, jimkelly02 said:

Idk about that.  There’s the same number of roster spots (within 1-2) on every defense.  In the past we’d carry scrub rub defenders (Josh Mauro types) so it actually makes sense to have specialists like Key has become.

Paul Gunther's defense had an emphasis on stopping the run rather than rushing the passer. That's why the base ends were more important than the pass rushers. That's why we want with Clelin Farrell over Josh Allen and Brian Burns

Edited January 8, 2023 by Jeremy408

[jimkelly02]

1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said:

Paul Gunther's defense had an emphasis on stopping the run rather than rushing the passer. That's why the base ends were more important than the pass rushers. That's why we want with Clelin Farrell over Josh Allen and Brian Burns

Your right but when you have run stuffing DEs who can’t pass rush at a high level it makes sense to have one backup DE that can replace the run stuffing and 1 that can come in on 3rd down to rush.  So that’s why it would make sense to use Key as a 3rd down rusher.

[Jeremy408]

4 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Idk about that.  There’s the same number of roster spots (within 1-2) on every defense.  In the past we’d carry scrub rub defenders (Josh Mauro types) so it actually makes sense to have specialists like Key has become.

 

Edit:

i get what your saying after a few minutes I think: you mean we were so devoid of talent it pushed Key into being a starter?

 yes because think about it he wasn't even supposed to play until Mack got traded got hurt then all of a sudden he's the every down guy. It's completely different when you have Khalil Mack and Bruce Irvin and he's the third rusher. That's when you can have a pass rushing specialist. But when your cupboard is dry you can't have someone like him be successful. Think about this defensively you can't even get to rushing the passer on third down unless you stop the run on first and second down in the first place

[bucksavage1]

I’ve said this before we have several ex defensive line players making plays all season. Autry, Key, Harris, Ward. Even saw Jack Crawford on someone’s roster 

[Dessie]

7 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

I’ve said this before we have several ex defensive line players making plays all season. Autry, Key, Harris, Ward. Even saw Jack Crawford on someone’s roster 

Crawford retired before this season, but he did have a 10 year career. 

[NYRaider]

I'd target someone like Nate Davis in free agency and Andrew Vorhees in the 2nd round. Bring back JE, move Donald Parham inside to center full time.

Miller - Vorhees - Parham - Davis - JE 

[jimkelly02]

18 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I'd target someone like Nate Davis in free agency and Andrew Vorhees in the 2nd round. Bring back JE, move Donald Parham inside to center full time.

Miller - Vorhees - Parham - Davis - JE 

I like Vorhees a lot.  I’d prefer him in round 3, maybe late 2nd (mainly due to positional value) but this G class stinks imo so he’ll get pushed up boards.

[NYRaider]

On 1/7/2023 at 7:59 PM, bucksavage1 said:

I’ve said this before we have several ex defensive line players making plays all season. Autry, Key, Harris, Ward. Even saw Jack Crawford on someone’s roster 

Autry and Harris were two starting level dudes we let get away, IIRC Autry was undrafted and Harris was a 7th round pick. Key, Ward, and Edwards have become good rotational players but they were all over drafted and placed into bigger roles than they should've been coming into the NFL.

[jimkelly02]

I kind of hope we move Eluemenor to G and draft a RT in rounds 1-2 or at least resign Eluemenor and draft a developmental RT in round 3.  I’m just tired of RT being an issue every since year outside of 1 year (really just 11 games) ever since Lincoln Kennedy retired.  Yeah Langston Walker was above average for some points and Khalif Barnes was average but it’s lying to finally have a top RT, IMO. 
 

If we don’t want to spend our 1st on Paris Johnson of OSU the. Darrell Wright of Tennesse, Dawand Jones of Ohio St, Blake Freeland of BYU, Matthew Bergeron of Syracuse, even Ryan Hayes of Michigan or Zion Nelson of Miami, FL or Carter Warren of Pitt.  I’d have preferred Spencer Brown two years ago but that’s past.

[NYRaider]

6 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I kind of hope we move Eluemenor to G and draft a RT in rounds 1-2 or at least resign Eluemenor and draft a developmental RT in round 3.  I’m just tired of RT being an issue every since year outside of 1 year (really just 11 games) ever since Lincoln Kennedy retired.  Yeah Langston Walker was above average for some points and Khalif Barnes was average but it’s lying to finally have a top RT, IMO. 
 

If we don’t want to spend our 1st on Paris Johnson of OSU the. Darrell Wright of Tennesse, Dawand Jones of Ohio St, Blake Freeland of BYU, Matthew Bergeron of Syracuse, even Ryan Hayes of Michigan or Zion Nelson of Miami, FL or Carter Warren of Pitt.  I’d have preferred Spencer Brown two years ago but that’s past.

Darnell Wright in the 3rd round would be nice.

[jimkelly02]

52 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Darnell Wright in the 3rd round would be nice.

I’d love that but I think he goes early to mid 2nd.  

[Humble_Beast]

On 1/9/2023 at 11:13 AM, jimkelly02 said:

I’d love that but I think he goes early to mid 2nd.  

Wright is a stud, and one of my favorite prospects. I think he goes in the early 2nd at worst, he probably will be drafted in the 20s by a playoff team.