Offensive Line Discussion Thread

[Dallas94Ware]

7 hours ago, Northland said:

We can go back and forth on this issue but I'm not going to.  Steele by all reports had a lousy camp followed by an awful game 1.  If this trend continues he's a candidate to sit.

Lousy camp? Pretty sure the very opening of the broadcast Sunday night specifically said he had a good camp and how he has been an unsung hero on this unit..

One bad game and so many of you are really so quick to toss him away? Man, Id hate to be married to you guys LOL! One fight and youre walking out for good, eh?

Well, Lamb played terrible last game. Lets bench him, too.

Oh, so did Pollard. May as well see what Dowdle can do, or sign Jerome Bettis.

Know who else played poorly? Schultz. Maybe we can trade him for a fourth or fifth round pick if we are lucky.

In fact, most of the starters save for Micah had a bad game. Lets just start from scratch everywhere. I mean, one bad game is all it takes to overwrite all the good a player has done leading up to that poor game, right? 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Dallas94Ware

[Northland]

43 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said:

Lousy camp? Pretty sure the very opening of the broadcast Sunday night specifically said he had a good camp and how he has been an unsung hero on this unit..

One bad game and so many of you are really so quick to toss him away? Man, Id hate to be married to you guys LOL! One fight and youre walking out for good, eh?

Well, Lamb played terrible last game. Lets bench him, too.

Oh, so did Pollard. May as well see what Dowdle can do, or sign Jerome Bettis.

Know who else played poorly? Schultz. Maybe we can trade him for a fourth or fifth round pick if we are lucky.

In fact, most of the starters save for Micah had a bad game. Lets just start from scratch everywhere. I mean, one bad game is all it takes to overwrite all the good a player has done leading up to that poor game, right? 

I knew I had seen something about Steele being someone to worry about.  Now the source is Bryan Broaddus who half the time I find insightful and the other half is not worth reading.  So take it with a grain of salt.  One of my circle of friends played and coached and in a conversation said of Steele you know he's been alright but sometimes, not all the time, the league will figure you out.  It would be nice if Steele plays as he did last year, but Broaddus' remarks in camp followed up by a brutal performance in Game 1 have raised the antennas.  If Smith's long term position is LT, whose to say they won't just leave him there?  I don't think Peters was signed with the intention of him being a swing tackle.  He's going to want to start.  A left side of Martin and Peters doesn't look too bad.  

 https://thelandryhat.com/2022/08/08/cowboys-players-disappointing-training-camp-garibay-steele/3/

I believe the article is questioning Steeles strength specifically his ability to anchor against a bull rush.  I'm a lay person.  When I read that I went okay lets watch Steele.  Then he has a less than stellar opening night and I think should this continue he is a candidate to sit.

This same article singles out Diggs as well which I thought was foolish.  The drill he kept getting "burned" on is designed as I understand it to feature the WR and is very difficult for the DB in question.  No contact whatsoever. 

I'll leave it this way.  Steele knows he has to play better. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Northland

[Dallas94Ware]

3 hours ago, Northland said:

I knew I had seen something about Steele being someone to worry about.  Now the source is Bryan Broaddus who half the time I find insightful and the other half is not worth reading.  So take it with a grain of salt.  One of my circle of friends played and coached and in a conversation said of Steele you know he's been alright but sometimes, not all the time, the league will figure you out.  It would be nice if Steele plays as he did last year, but Broaddus' remarks in camp followed up by a brutal performance in Game 1 have raised the antennas.  If Smith's long term position is LT, whose to say they won't just leave him there?  I don't think Peters was signed with the intention of him being a swing tackle.  He's going to want to start.  A left side of Martin and Peters doesn't look too bad.  

 https://thelandryhat.com/2022/08/08/cowboys-players-disappointing-training-camp-garibay-steele/3/

I believe the article is questioning Steeles strength specifically his ability to anchor against a bull rush.  I'm a lay person.  When I read that I went okay lets watch Steele.  Then he has a less than stellar opening night and I think should this continue he is a candidate to sit.

This same article singles out Diggs as well which I thought was foolish.  The drill he kept getting "burned" on is designed as I understand it to feature the WR and is very difficult for the DB in question.  No contact whatsoever. 

I'll leave it this way.  Steele knows he has to play better. 

I actually like Broaddus. He is hit and miss (what scout or radio host isnt?) But i always liked his analysis so I hear ya.

But I still dont see why Steele should ride a bench for good over one game. He had a bad day.  Almost the entire team did.. so why should only Steele take a seat? Especially when Sundays poor performance is not his usual performance. If it was his usual? Sure. But he has been, outside of Martin, the most consistent and healthy member on the line. Tyron? Usually ailing. Biadasz? Consistently struggling. Connor? Consistently subpar. Steele? Consistently improving and usually putting out a reliable showing at RT. Stardom? No. But reliable, solid, and offers a future value as he goes from UDFA to eventually 3rd and 4th year starter at a very good price.

[Northland]

2 hours ago, Dallas94Ware said:

I actually like Broaddus. He is hit and miss (what scout or radio host isnt?) But i always liked his analysis so I hear ya.

But I still dont see why Steele should ride a bench for good over one game. He had a bad day.  Almost the entire team did.. so why should only Steele take a seat? Especially when Sundays poor performance is not his usual performance. If it was his usual? Sure. But he has been, outside of Martin, the most consistent and healthy member on the line. Tyron? Usually ailing. Biadasz? Consistently struggling. Connor? Consistently subpar. Steele? Consistently improving and usually putting out a reliable showing at RT. Stardom? No. But reliable, solid, and offers a future value as he goes from UDFA to eventually 3rd and 4th year starter at a very good price.

If Dallas had viable options to replace Biadasz and Williams Id be all for it.  I've wanted a no nonsense road grader at LG for a while.  That position has not been the same since Leary left.  I know nothing.  I think Smith will stay at OT although he would be the road grader I like and want at guard.  That leaves RT a fight between Peters and Steele.  I don't think Peters signed to be a backup.  It's like a game of musical chairs at this point.  

Edited September 16, 2022 by Northland

[Dallas94Ware]

On 9/15/2022 at 8:39 PM, Northland said:

If Dallas had viable options to replace Biadasz and Williams Id be all for it.  I've wanted a no nonsense road grader at LG for a while.  That position has not been the same since Leary left.  I know nothing.  I think Smith will stay at OT although he would be the road grader I like and want at guard.  That leaves RT a fight between Peters and Steele.  I don't think Peters signed to be a backup.  It's like a game of musical chairs at this point.  

Sorry to reply a couple days later. Took a road trip up to Buffalo and have been enjoying the little big city before Monday nights game. Nothing like almost dying and fighting off that huge health issue (the reason i was gone from here for that 2 year period) to make someone realize they need to travel more!

Any case, I agree replacing Biadasz and Connor would be preferable. We just dont really have the candidates for it, unless that Warniok or whatever his name is can develop his strength enough to actually compete with those massive interior defensive linemen. But, as for replacing Connor...we technically did when we drafted Tyler. It sucks Tyron got hurt so badly. But, ideally, Tyler would be playing at Guard. A position he is better suited for especiallg right now. Where his slower footwork could be masked not having to protect against those upper tier pass rushers, and his inexperience wont be exposed as easily. Crafty coordinators will force him into situations that highlight his shortcomings and inexperience, particularly that foot work and rigid hips. While playing inside, he can use his excellent push, knee bend and balance to protect from the inside and generate some bigger gaps for Zeke and Pollard. 

So, if it were my call....Peters would play at LT. And Tyler could get a chance to dominate inside like his skill set suggests he can. Allowing him to continue developing both his body, mind and confidence so that when it is time to take over for Tyron long term, he is prepared. Just as I keep saying not to let Steeles one bad game erase all the solid play we have seen from him and know he is capable of, dont let Tylers one decent start at LT suggest he is set in stone as a quality LT, either. No career should be made or broken by one performance. 

And to be honest...and many of you wont like this...but we protected Tyler quite a bit scheme wise, even to the detriment of the offense. And Bowles, seeing the extra help going weak side to Tyler, schematically attacked the strong side where Steele was because any mathemitican can tell you, 2 is more than 1. If you send an extra rusher on the same side the offense is already setting an extra protector, you lose the advantage in numbers. If you send it on the side where there is no extra protector, you maintain that advantage. It certainly benefitted Tyler, and perhaps, MAYBE, also made Steele jumpy.

Anyways, yeah, dont let a career be made or broken on one game. Tyler could be better than Tyron ever was, and Steele might regress back to his rookie season of being an absolute pushover. But you cant tell thst from one game..and elevating one or benching the other over one game certainly is not going to help you in the short run nor the long run.

Peters-Tyler-Biadasz-Martin-Steele

..offers the best option for right now. If Peters cant handle it anymore or Steele starts loading up the penalty count again and continues playing off balance OR doesnt improve upon the worst performance in entire 3 year career...yeah, Peters going right and Tyler kicking back out is always still an option. But the lineup how I jjst listed above puts your best linemen in their naturally best positions to maximize what they can do.

[Dallas94Ware]

Oh oh @Northlandalso, I loved me some Ron Leary. But as I said in a different reply here to you..dont forget how AWESOME Collins was at guard. Moving him to RT probably ruined this OLs massive potential that it had back then, and derailed his otherwise likely Allpro career. That kid at Guard put out some of the best film for a pulling guard I have ever seen. 

I get why they moved him. And it wasnt like he was no good at tackle. He just wasnt as consistent, and especially not as domineering, as he was at Guard for that season. Tackles make more, so I am sure Collins is fine with it...but his career would be thought of in a whole different light had he stayed at guard (and that whole "best OL in the NFL" moniker that I kept saying was severely overstated and overrated, even though i caught tons of hate for it, might have actually become true)

[quiller]

I don’t know I just know last time I was happy with the OL was before the Denver game last year.  That is a long string of what I consider putrid performances.   Now I can give a break over last week as TB has a dominate front that can make any team’s OL struggle. Personally I thought our middle. Was worse then the edges but I didn’t really break it down much being totally disgusted with how the game was going including the offensive play calling 

[quiller]

Sure helps when there are no pre snap penalties or holding calls.  But nice to get a TD. 

[quiller]

Great 1st down by penalty. 

[Texas_OutLaw7]

All of this with our 3rd LG. Yes sir let’s go!

[Dallas94Ware]

14 hours ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said:

All of this with our 3rd LG. Yes sir let’s go!

Kellen did a terrific job masking the inefficiencies on the OL yesterday, utilizing a lot of short quick reads and doubling up on the dump off options for Cooper Rush. Not only did it simplify things for Rush, it allowed him to not rely on timing (which can be disrupted with questionable protection) and instead read the defense and throw only to the safest options.

Now what I will say is that this is not so easily maintained over a game to game basis. If your defense isnt shutting down an offense like ours did most of yesterday, this type of offense makes it extremely difficult to drive the field again and again to keep up with an opposing offense that is putting up points. But for right now, it should work - the Giants offense for example, does not scare me at all outside of Barkley running loose. 

I was proud of Kellen Moore yesterday. He tailored the gameplan and it was effective. He showed he can indeed be less rigid and also lean on the ground game from start to finish, not just to close a game or to start a game.

[Dallas94Ware]

Oh and fir the record! Northland, listen to todays The Break. Broaddus breaks down Tyler and Steele pretty well. I told you I do like Broaddus..his opinions arent always accurate but always based on true knowledge of sport and mechanic because his background was in scout and film study. I can appreciate that.

In short though..he says Steele is one of the better pass protectors on our line, and a better protector thsn run blocker. And that Tyler gets away with a lot of mistakes..such as the poor footwork ive mentioned, but also a lot of uncalled holds and blocking the wrong guy.

[D82]

Think you'd be smarter keeping Peters at tackle...but....

[textaz03]

58 minutes ago, D82 said:

Think you'd be smarter keeping Peters at tackle...but....

If Tyler Smith keeps improving and continues to excel at LT, I would seriously look at playing T-Rex at RT when he comes back and put Peters at LG. Peter’s could be a huge upgrade at LG over McGovern or what any other body we have there. 

[Tony7188]

2 hours ago, textaz03 said:

If Tyler Smith keeps improving and continues to excel at LT, I would seriously look at playing T-Rex at RT when he comes back and put Peters at LG. Peter’s could be a huge upgrade at LG over McGovern or what any other body we have there. 

My issue is with the long term plan and playing musical chairs with the OL. The F.O. said the long term plan is to have Tyler at LG and have him take over at LT in 1-2 years. Peters was signed so that Tyler can go back to LG. 

I think they should stick with their long term plan and move Tyler back to LG and have Peters at LT. Once Tyron comes back, have him play at either LT/RT since he has experience doing both.