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Tua vs Mac vs Wilson


WizeGuy

Who will turn out to be the best QB of the bunch?  

61 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will turn out to be the best QB of the bunch?

    • Tua
      38
    • Mac
      13
    • Wilson
      11


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9 hours ago, Forge said:

You mean like PFF grades? No, I find those to be a joke too often. 

EPA is gaining a lot of steam.  I don't quite understand the the math behind it, but I don't think it's black boxed either. Its worth noting that different places have different calculations though, I believe. Ben Baldwin has one that is pretty well regarded, but SIS and Tru Media also have their own I believe. The fact that it's actually done over multiple different establishments is a good thing given I have no idea how it is calculated. It gives it weight. 

There's probably not a single identifier of quality NFL play because there are also certain to be outliers, etc. So cross referencing multiple stats is probably the way to go if that's the way you want to do it.

However, if I had to pick a single traditional stat / metric that supports quality of play, its probably ANY / A. 

 

 

Jimmy G top 5 QB all time career

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Just now, Trojan said:

No lol. I've just never looked up that specific stat and saw he was 5th all time.

Yeah, very clear indicator of how much easier it is to pass in modern times. Only 3 of the top 35 played considerable chunks of their career before 2000. 

Jimmyg is also the modern leader in yards per attempt for those with at least 1500 attempts lol

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13 hours ago, john305 said:

Sure thing Doc but first can you take a look at this mole on my right ********?. Can I PM you some pics?

You go ahead and believe what you want to believe.  So many people get up quickly with a back injury and then stumble while shaking their heads.  Pretty sure I saw that under symptoms for back injuries in the journal of medicine.

That mole thing you got going on no need for pics.  It's a back injury, no charge for that one.

 

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21 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

Wilson is 20th in QBR right now which is a pretty solid QB stat.  Much better then PFF IMO.  He's at 48 something with league average being like 53.  Despite the NE meltdown and some low yardage totals he's been pretty average which is a solid 2nd year step from where he was last year.  Against BUF he did a much better job of getting the ball out quickly which he was fantastic when doing.  I've been pounding the table instead of running backwards and buying time which he's been doing well it hasn't lead to completions just more mistakes.  Against BUF he stepped up and used his legs to move the chains.  It was a huge part of the game to keep drives going.  So many of the good QBs do it and he has the ability clearly now he just needs to do it more consistently because it's a back breaker for defenses when the QB scrambles for a 1st after good coverage.

Yeah. He looked solid against us. Not a world beater, but for a year two QB- it was a promising game. That defense, though...geez. Can y'all chill!

Your boys are building something over there in NJ (I have to get my shots in as a Bills fan, haha). If Breece Hall comes back 100% (which he should) and Wilson can approach becoming a top-10 QB next year- then watch out! 

22 hours ago, NYJets4716 said:

Tua has the edge, he is having a excellent season with the most dynamic WR tandem we have ever seen. 

But he is also a year ahead of the others in development, year 3 is usually when you see if a QB is going to sink or swim. First 2 years is usually when they have training wheels. 

Tua is looking better than I thought he would. Kudos to their GM and McDaniel. I really think they're bringing out the best in him. I'm not sure Waddle + Hill is the most dynamic duo ever, but they're probably the best 1-2 in the league and fit McDaniel's system like a glove. 

Tua has some trait you can build around- super fast release, very accurate on the intermediate routes, tough, and can move around well enough. He'll never be a QB who can roll out and sling a ball 50 yards on a rope, but in McDaniel's system- he will flourish. 

The AFCE is a bloodbath now. I thought the Bills would dominate it for the next decade. Now I believe there are two teams that are going to be very good for the foreseeable future and one that has one of the best coaches ever that is also pretty solid. 

I personally LOVE it. I thought I'd hate it, but I've learned I like the competitiveness. Fun stuff!

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1 hour ago, WizeGuy said:

Yeah. He looked solid against us. Not a world beater, but for a year two QB- it was a promising game. That defense, though...geez. Can y'all chill!

Your boys are building something over there in NJ (I have to get my shots in as a Bills fan, haha). If Breece Hall comes back 100% (which he should) and Wilson can approach becoming a top-10 QB next year- then watch out! Tua is looking better than I thought he would. Kudos to their GM and McDaniel. I really think they're bringing out the best in him

. I'm not sure Waddle + Hill is the most dynamic duo ever, but they're probably the best 1-2 in the league and fit McDaniel's system like a glove. 

Tua has some trait you can build around- super fast r

elease, very accurate on the intermediate routes, tough, and can move around well enough. He'll never be a QB who can roll out and sling a ball 50 yards on a rope, but in McDaniel's system- he will flourish. 

The AFCE is a bloodbath now. I thought the Bills would dominate it for the next decade. Now I believe there are two teams that are going to be very good for the foreseeable future and one that has one of the best coaches ever that is also pretty solid. 

I personally LOVE it. I thought I'd hate it, but I've learned I like the competitiveness. Fun stuff!

Idk, Hill is on pace to break 2k yards and Waddle 1500 yards. When have we ever seen something like that?  I thought Hill would have a  production drop without Mahomes, but he is having a amazing season.

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12 hours ago, Forge said:

Yeah, very clear indicator of how much easier it is to pass in modern times. Only 3 of the top 35 played considerable chunks of their career before 2000. 

Jimmyg is also the modern leader in yards per attempt for those with at least 1500 attempts lol

The answer is easy. ANY/A+. Automatically adjusts for the climate of the league and shows the percentage above average you are. League Average is always set to 100. Adjusted passing stats should be much more utilized.

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3 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

Austin Gayle

@austingayle_

·

15h

Top clean-pocket EPA per dropback averages this season, per TruMedia/PFF:

1. Patrick Mahomes

2. Jalen Hurts

3. Tua Tagovailoa

4. Jimmy Garoppolo

5. Zach Wilson

Zach is at his best when he is making quick throws and decisions. He is at his worst when he is pressured and starts running backwards. 

But I think eventually, due to pure talent and when his awareness gets better, he will make a unbelievable throw or make a killer play when he starts doing that. 

 

I think he is clearly one of those guys who will take a little bit longer to develop cause he came from BYU, didn't face top competition, and he is a gunslinger, those kind of QBs usually take longer as you have to coach them up more. They are arrogant about their arm talent and don't realize how fast guys close in on throws in the NFL.   Year 3 is the big year for QBs. 

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2 minutes ago, NYJets4716 said:

Zach is at his best when he is making quick throws and decisions. He is at his worst when he is pressured and starts running backwards. 

But I think eventually, due to pure talent and when his awareness gets better, he will make a unbelievable throw or make a killer play when he starts doing that. 

 

I think he is clearly one of those guys who will take a little bit longer to develop cause he came from BYU, didn't face top competition, and he is a gunslinger, those kind of QBs usually take longer as you have to coach them up more. They are arrogant about their arm talent and don't realize how fast guys close in on throws in the NFL.   Year 3 is the big year for QBs. 

Don't come in here with logic.  It doesn't fly in these parts.

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27 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Don't come in here with logic.  It doesn't fly in these parts.

The other thing, people do not acknowledge. Our OL is a patchwork line, we literally had 4 OTs go down. We lost Fant, Becton, Mitchell, and AVT. It really speaks volumes to Joe Douglas that he was able to patch it up with bandaids because that kind of leak usually sinks a team. That is a crazy amount of injuries at a key position.  We have a 37 year old LT with a bum shoulder, and a guy signed off the streets starting at RT. Crazy. 

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On 9/21/2022 at 3:11 PM, biggie. said:

Can hopes be really crushed when you're as hopeless as the New York Jets?

You seem to like taking shots at the Jets.  I get that they are a division rival, and you have been fortunate enough to cheer for the Belichick/Brady Patriots, but I am detecting a very distinct note of bitterness and jealousy in your words when you talk about the Jets.  Could it be that you are fearing the thought that the Jets may be going in one direction (up), and your Patriots are going in the opposite direction?  Brady is gone, and BB isn't going to coach forever.  Then were will you be?

I'm not a fan of either team.  I do respect what Belichick and Brady accomplished during their run, but when it comes to the current quarterbacks, I just don't see how you have a leg to stand on when it comes to Mac Jones.  His ceiling is low enough that it's going to be very difficult to go anywhere with him. 

In contrast, Wilson could end up being a bust, but if he can learn the NFL game, he at least has the physical ability to keep up on an NFL stage.

As a Patriots fan, you have been able to look down at fans of every other team in the league for the better part of twenty years.  You might want to reconsider taking shots at other teams now, though.  Once you lose a HOF quarterback, it can take a LONG time to replace him.  Life has a way of teaching us all some lessons in humility as the years pass.  Things don't stay the same forever.

 

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4 hours ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said:

You seem to like taking shots at the Jets.  I get that they are a division rival, and you have been fortunate enough to cheer for the Belichick/Brady Patriots, but I am detecting a very distinct note of bitterness and jealousy in your words when you talk about the Jets.  Could it be that you are fearing the thought that the Jets may be going in one direction (up), and your Patriots are going in the opposite direction?  Brady is gone, and BB isn't going to coach forever.  Then were will you be?

I'm not a fan of either team.  I do respect what Belichick and Brady accomplished during their run, but when it comes to the current quarterbacks, I just don't see how you have a leg to stand on when it comes to Mac Jones.  His ceiling is low enough that it's going to be very difficult to go anywhere with him. 

In contrast, Wilson could end up being a bust, but if he can learn the NFL game, he at least has the physical ability to keep up on an NFL stage.

As a Patriots fan, you have been able to look down at fans of every other team in the league for the better part of twenty years.  You might want to reconsider taking shots at other teams now, though.  Once you lose a HOF quarterback, it can take a LONG time to replace him.  Life has a way of teaching us all some lessons in humility as the years pass.  Things don't stay the same forever.

 

Here we go again: the pHySiCaL tOoLs bullcrap. Zach Wilson is complete crap and is clearly the Jets biggest liability.

I'm not the least bit concerned about the Jets because we just recently owned them yet again. Sure they'll have the odd years when they deceive everyone like 09, 10 and 15 but it always ends up being same old Jets in the long run.

 

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