Week #3 GDT: Raiders @ Titans: No Polls, No Frills, Just Holes to Fill

[bucksavage1]

This Derek Carr fantasy has gone on long enough. 

Literally teams have reached and won Super Bowls, conferences, playoff games etc went on to change QBs. 

[Darbsk]

10 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Carr homers wouldn’t be happy unless John Madden was coach, we have the 2000 Ravens defense, Jerry Rice and Randy Moss in their prime, and our OL from the 70’s. Maybe the Carr excuses would be slightly less then. Slightly. 

There will always be multiple flaws on an offense. Pick a couple. The idea that Carr needs a near perfect situation to perform is just ridiculous. He needs to perform regardless. 

Bay Raider dude, you know I like you and I can totally respect your point of view even though obviously I don't agree with it, but you keep mentioning these Carr 'Homers' or Carr 'Apologists' etc. Who are these guys, genuinely?

I see that yourself, @NYRaider @bucksavage1 and @raidr4life clearly are not fans of Carr and clearly don't like or rate him and you've all stated some reasons which is fair enough and I respect those opinions.

I just don't see anyone here really defending Carr to the hilt and who could really be considered a 'Homer', nobody that I can see is defending him beyond some kind of reason or rationale? Everyone here (apart from one poster that I commented on in another thread) has admitted as far as I can see that Carr was horrible in week 1 and probably cost us the game. No one as far as I can see are claiming he is a top 5 or elite QB and no-one is saying he should be absolved of any blame. I think he is getting blamed accordingly. He played terribly week one, no question, not defending that at all, missed a couple 'should be' TDs and threw some bad Ints - that one was on him. I thought he was decent week 2, not great but not poor either, made some mistakes but also made some great plays and generally did enough that we should have won. I don't think anyone can put all the blame on him week 2. Week 3 I genuinely thought he played really well and with even average catching we should have won quite comfortably. I personally don't hold him culpable at all this week, I don't like singling players out as I've said before in a team sport but that was all on Waller Sunday, clear as the big nose on my face.

So, who are these Homers and Carr fanatics we're talking about here and you are so offended by? I just don't see guys being unreasonable or irrationally pro Carr. If anything, I can only see guys being slightly over the top the other way? 

[BackinBlack]

12 hours ago, BayRaider said:

The problem with Carr fans is they can’t understand the concept of ditching Carr for a high upside project. High upside projects like Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Trey Lance, and Justin Fields are viewed instantly as “trash” and “what’s the point”. You gamble on upside. You develop their high end traits with a competent coaching staff. Josh Allen was god damn terrible his first two years. 

If you don’t take risks and gamble on high upside tools and traits, you’re gonna be left in the dust. 

If you lose out on the gamble, all you lose out on is Carr and draft capital. Losing a average QB isn’t a big deal. And losing draft capital will eventually heal itself. 

You can’t run a team scared. Scared/conservative teams don’t win championships. Al Davis would be ashamed. 

Just the way the team has been built the last few seasons, i didnt think it made sense. 
After this year, I think very good chance we move for a qb

[NickButera]

13 hours ago, BayRaider said:

The problem with Carr fans is they can’t understand the concept of ditching Carr for a high upside project. High upside projects like Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Trey Lance, and Justin Fields are viewed instantly as “trash” and “what’s the point”. You gamble on upside. You develop their high end traits with a competent coaching staff. Josh Allen was god damn terrible his first two years. 

If you don’t take risks and gamble on high upside tools and traits, you’re gonna be left in the dust. 

If you lose out on the gamble, all you lose out on is Carr and draft capital. Losing a average QB isn’t a big deal. And losing draft capital will eventually heal itself. 

You can’t run a team scared. Scared/conservative teams don’t win championships. Al Davis would be ashamed. 

I'm totally ok with that. However I also realize it's not the only way to win, we have a lot of low hanging fruit we can go after that will make us a playoff team before we even need to think about that.  We're losing, but Carr is only a small reason why that happens, and if we replace him the risk that we become a dumpster fire if we don't have a solid team built (fix all that low hanging fruit) is pretty high. I'd rather this team be smart than hasty. 

[true2form]

Gonna try to stay positive for one more week.  We are so close and the flood gates just need to be opened.  We've played 3 solid teams and lost by a combined 13 points.  I believe we should've won all 3 of them if we were just playing above average all game.  

I'd feel differently if we were losing games to the Browns, Jets, or Texans.  Here's hoping they right the ship against the Donks.

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, true2form said:

Gonna try to stay positive for one more week.  We are so close and the flood gates just need to be opened.  We've played 3 solid teams and lost by a combined 13 points.  I believe we should've won all 3 of them if we were just playing above average all game.  

I'd feel differently if we were losing games to the Browns, Jets, or Texans.  Here's hoping they right the ship against the Donks.

To be fair, the 3 teams they lost to all have 1 win and it's against the Raiders. There is a lot of parity in the league right now. 

If McDaniels cant out coach Buddy Whackit next week, then things might get a little uncomfortable.  

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

To be fair, the 3 teams they lost to all have 1 win and it's against the Raiders. There is a lot of parity in the league right now. 

If McDaniels cant out coach Buddy Whackit next week, then things might get a little uncomfortable.  

😂😂

[bucksavage1]

10 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I thought Carr never, ever threw into tight windows though?!?!?!?!?!? Doesn't he only ever throw check downs or when guys are running wide open?

Seriously, you're right though, hospital passes are a real thing and that is why the good receivers get paid big bucks, to make just such catches. For Waller's salary I expect him to be prepared to leave the field on a stretcher every week because I would, even for vet minimum.

Lamar Jackson and his TE literally had the same route concept as Carr and Waller. Pat even says “hospital ball”. 
 

The difference was ball placement. Jackson gave a better ball and Carr laid Waller into the hit with the placement which created a turnover 

Edited September 26, 2022 by bucksavage1

[NCOUGHMAN]

7 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

Lamar Jackson and his TE literally had the same route concept as Carr and Waller. Pat even says “hospital ball”. 
 

The difference was ball placement. Jackson gave a better ball and Carr laid Waller into the hit with the placement which created a turnover 

Interesting 

[Darbsk]

41 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

Lamar Jackson and his TE literally had the same route concept as Carr and Waller. Pat even says “hospital ball”. 
 

The difference was ball placement. Jackson gave a better ball and Carr laid Waller into the hit with the placement which created a turnover 

Sounds great, and is fine in theory but have a look at Wallers route again and Carr can’t throw behind him him as there is a defender right there. He puts it where Waller can get two hands to it, right on him and a guy making that money simply HAS to make that play. He doesn’t lead Waller into the hit (take a look on the Titans website, better angle there that shows clearly) but he knows the hit is coming, it seems to me that everyone else has an excuse. It’s hypocritical. Waller basically cost us the game just as Carr did week one.

[NickButera]

In the history of my football fandom.... I have never, ever, seen a ball thrown square to a receiver who got both hands up and on it, miss it.....and the blame goes to the QB. Until this week. 

 

Square: meaning from your head to hip. The square of your front. ...I mean, it's like going around telling police officers they should have shot the gun out of the a shooters hands. 

[BobbyPhil1781]

45 minutes ago, NickButera said:

In the history of my football fandom.... I have never, ever, seen a ball thrown square to a receiver who got both hands up and on it, miss it.....and the blame goes to the QB. Until this week. 

 

Square: meaning from your head to hip. The square of your front. ...I mean, it's like going around telling police officers they should have shot the gun out of the a shooters hands. 

It's only bc who our QB is. It's been understood that most people here don't watch any teams play except the Raiders bc it they did, they'd understand the things they criticize Carr for could be said about every QB in the league.....  It's either that or there's no integrity to their criticism and they just want him gone and are making **** up as they go. 

[bucksavage1]

3 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Sounds great, and is fine in theory but have a look at Wallers route again and Carr can’t throw behind him him as there is a defender right there. He puts it where Waller can get two hands to it, right on him and a guy making that money simply HAS to make that play. He doesn’t lead Waller into the hit (take a look on the Titans website, better angle there that shows clearly) but he knows the hit is coming, it seems to me that everyone else has an excuse. It’s hypocritical. Waller basically cost us the game just as Carr did week one.

Re-watch the Hasselbeck says about the route concept from Jackson/TE use that in the Wallet/Carr situation. His entire point was leading the catcher away from a hospital pass shot
 

Now the best thing you can come up with is that Waller gotta catch that before being obliterated from the back and front? It’s all about ball placement 

[Darbsk]

6 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

Re-watch the Hasselbeck says about the route concept from Jackson/TE use that in the Wallet/Carr situation. His entire point was leading the catcher away from a hospital pass shot
 

Now the best thing you can come up with is that Waller gotta catch that before being obliterated from the back and front? It’s all about ball placement 

Sorry, don’t agree. He was not ‘obliterated’ he wasn’t even shook up. The hit wasn’t that big actually if you really watch it. I watched it numerous times and he has a defender behind him, squares up to Carr, Carr hits him directly in the hands and he tips it as the defender comes in for the hit from the left. If Carr puts it right of him you think he’s going to catch that? He just tipped it after putting it right on him! Also, if Carr throws it behind him and he tips it we all know everyone is going to say ‘but Carr threw behind him’ 😂
 

Sorry, to me this is nit picking in the extreme. You pay a guy 17 million or whatever and he simply has to come down with the ball. Simple as that.

[BobbyPhil1781]

5 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Sorry, to me this is nit picking in the extreme. You pay a guy 17 million or whatever and he simply has to come down with the ball. Simple as that.

Twice......