Why couldn't Rodgers be even slightly as successful as Brady?

[Soggust]

15 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

That depends - is Super Bowl MVP an individual accolade or a team accolade?

Either way, my hot take is that I tend to think SB MVPs are a bit overrated because it's realistically just the best player of a single game. Sure it takes more to get there, but that's when it leans more into the team category imo.

So, I personally would value being the best player during the entire season over being the best player in a game 4 times, but I could understand I might be in the minority on that (and 4 more SB MVPs is certainly a better argument than 1-2, so I could prolly be swayed). 

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I do think however, that even with what I said about Rodgers being better individually - it's really only in the context you proposed initially (what most people define as 'talent'). I actually think Brady might be more talented when you consider the totality/intangibles. Rodgers might be more proficient at throwing a tight spiral accurately into a tire from a mile away, but Brady has "people skills" and getting the most out of people you work with is an incredibly value skill in any profession.

Rodgers feels like the all-star employee who ends up being a terrible manager because he expects everyone to be as great as he is.

Brady feels like the all-star employee you end up promoting and he ends up becoming even better as a manager.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Soggust

[squire12]

2011 loss to NYG 37 to 20.  Offense expected points -5.25. Defense expected points -12.89

2012 loss to SF 45 to 31.  Offense expected points 16.00. Defense expected points -25.88

2013 loss to SF 23 to 20.  Offense expected points 5.14. Defense expected points -11.98

2014 loss to Seattle 28 to 22.  Offense expected points -7.48. Defense expected points -2.03

2015 loss to Arizona 26 to 20.  Offense expected points 6.14 Defense expected points -6.94

2016 loss to ATL 44 to 21.  Offense expected points 14.83. Defense expected points -35.52

2019 loss to SF 37 to 20.  Offense expected points 5.47.  Defense expected points -18.03

2020 loss to TB 31 to 26.  Offense expected points 7.40. Defense expected points -14.40

2021 loss to SF 13 to 10.  Offense expected points -4.75. Defense expected points 11.56 ( special teams - 9.07)

 

Yup, OP thinks the defenses were pretty good.....but not an agenda

[notthatbluestuff]

3 minutes ago, squire12 said:

2011 loss to NYG 37 to 20.  Offense expected points -5.25. Defense expected points -12.89

2012 loss to SF 45 to 31.  Offense expected points 16.00. Defense expected points -25.88

2013 loss to SF 23 to 20.  Offense expected points 5.14. Defense expected points -11.98

2014 loss to Seattle 28 to 22.  Offense expected points -7.48. Defense expected points -2.03

2015 loss to Arizona 26 to 20.  Offense expected points 6.14 Defense expected points -6.94

2016 loss to ATL 44 to 21.  Offense expected points 14.83. Defense expected points -35.52

2019 loss to SF 37 to 20.  Offense expected points 5.47.  Defense expected points -18.03

2020 loss to TB 31 to 26.  Offense expected points 7.40. Defense expected points -14.40

2021 loss to SF 13 to 10.  Offense expected points -4.75. Defense expected points 11.56 ( special teams - 9.07)

 

Yup, OP thinks the defenses were pretty good.....but not an agenda

Expected points? You've lost me. When did I say all of their defenses throughout Rodgers' tenure were pretty good?

[notthatbluestuff]

8 minutes ago, Soggust said:

Either way, my hot take is that I tend to think SB MVPs are a bit overrated because it's realistically just the best player of a single game. Sure it takes more to get there, but that's when it leans more into the team category imo.

So, I personally would value being the best player during the entire season over being the best player in a game 4 times, but I could understand I might be in the minority on that (and 4 more SB MVPs is certainly a better argument than 1-2, so I could prolly be swayed). 

-------------

I do think however, that even with what I said about Rodgers being better individually - it's really only in the context you proposed initially (what most people define as 'talent'). I actually think Brady might be more talented when you consider the totality/intangibles. Rodgers might be more proficient at throwing a tight spiral accurately into a tire from a mile away, but Brady has "people skills" and getting the most out of people you work with is an incredibly value skill in any profession.

Rodgers feels like the all-star employee who ends up being a terrible manager because he expects everyone to be as great as he is.

Brady feels like the all-star employee you end up promoting and he ends up becoming even better as a manager.

Very interesting post - so Rodgers lacks the sufficient intangibles? I like it. Best I've read so far.

[Soggust]

Just now, notthatbluestuff said:

Very interesting post - so Rodgers lacks the sufficient intangibles? I like it. Best I've read so far.

Haha lacks leadership compared to Brady. He's Churchill compared to Baker/Wentz lol.

I'm still in the old school "monkey off your back" camp where if you win one, you clearly have enough intangibles to get it done.

So I certainly don't think Rodgers is a problem, but we are nitpicking him against the GOAT. 

[DontTazeMeBro]

52 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

I feel like this always gets turned into a big fish story. Even with Jerry Rice. Because how would you know unless you were there? Seems like whenever some athlete or coach is seen as the most successful, there is a contingent of people that whittle it down to them simply clocking in more hours than anyone else...as if no one else ever thought of that before. When in reality it could be a combination of things. You'd literally have to follow every receiver or QB in Brady's case and document their day to day schedules for comparison. There could be some whatever QB putting in the same amount of prep time, but they just aren't that talented, and as a result don't see the field, or is just a middling starter. Didn't Brady just leave training camp this summer to go appear on The Masked Singer or do some cosmetic stunt with his face? 

We don’t know but people say it and it seems like a silly thing to lie about. Then you consider that guys like Brady, Rice, Ray Lewis weren’t supremely gifted and everyone who’s been around them raves about their legendary work ethics. And you think maybe teammates just like them but then consider that despised players like Terrell Owens and Antonio Brown were also praised for their legendary work ethic and excelled despite not being the most gifted. And then you have physically gifted players like Clowney and McNabb who publicly had their work ethic criticized and didn’t come anywhere close to living up to their potential.

It’s not that no one else thought about it. Everyone has thought about it. It’s just really really hard and most people don’t have it in them.

Edited September 24, 2022 by DontTazeMeBro

[squire12]

1 minute ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Expected points? You've lost me. When did I say all of their defenses throughout Rodgers' tenure were pretty good?

You being lost was clear a few pages ago.  Admitting it is a good start.

You cherry picked 2 years and said they looked good, but failed to look at things more closely.  Pointed it out and shockingly, more deflection. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2021.htm

Let's see how willing you are to seek out answers to your proposed question.

[squire12]

1 minute ago, DontTazeMeBro said:

We don’t know but people say it and it seems like a silly thing to lie about. Then you consider that guys like Brady, Rice, Ray Lewis weren’t supremely gifted and everyone who’s been around them raves about their legendary work ethics. And you think maybe teammates just like them but then consider that despised players like Terrell Owens and Antonio Brown were also praised for their legendary work ethic. And then you have physically gifted like Clowney and McNabb who publicly had their work ethic criticized and didn’t come anywhere close to living up to their potential.

It’s not that no one else thought about it. Everyone has thought about it. It’s just really really hard and most people don’t have it in them.

Working harder shouldn't be confused with working smarter.  

If you know the latter, doing the former is actually easier.

[biggie.]

Brady is so old he's developed rivalries with Peyton, Rodgers AND Mahomes.

Next thing you know he'll start a rivalry with Arch Manning.

Edited September 24, 2022 by biggie.

[notthatbluestuff]

16 minutes ago, squire12 said:

You being lost was clear a few pages ago.  Admitting it is a good start.

You cherry picked 2 years and said they looked good, but failed to look at things more closely.  Pointed it out and shockingly, more deflection. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2021.htm

Let's see how willing you are to seek out answers to your proposed question.

"Look at the defenses Rodgers has been lumbered with!" "What about these two seasons?" "Well well, the OP thinks that Rodgers' defenses have always been good!" "That's not what I said." "STOP DEFLECTING!"

Why couldn't Rodgers' teams score more points than the 20 or thereabouts they managed in all those games? Oh, sorry, you posted expected points. So, they weren't expected to? Why not?

[notthatbluestuff]

19 minutes ago, Soggust said:

Haha lacks leadership compared to Brady. He's Churchill compared to Baker/Wentz lol.

I'm still in the old school "monkey off your back" camp where if you win one, you clearly have enough intangibles to get it done.

So I certainly don't think Rodgers is a problem, but we are nitpicking him against the GOAT. 

Yeah, I'm not saying the guy's a choker; clearly he's not because he's been there and done it. It's still an interesting discussion though - at least I think it is. I remember back in 2011, people thought a Rodgers dynasty was all but inevitable. 

[Sad People]

He shrinks in the playoffs, Brady doesnt.

[squire12]

11 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

"Look at the defenses Rodgers has been lumbered with!" "What about these two seasons?" "Well well, the OP thinks that Rodgers' defenses have always been good!" "That's not what I said." "STOP DEFLECTING!"

Why couldn't Rodgers' teams score more points than the 20 or thereabouts they managed in all those games? Oh, sorry, you posted expected points. So, they weren't expected to? Why not?

Look at the individual games for context. 

Each game has unique circumstances.  You are looking for a singular item that encapsulates a decade in a game with multiple factors over 100+ plays.  

 

[RandyMossIsBoss]

Unless you think Brady plays the QB position at a level so much higher than Rodgers that it’s worth 6 additional SBs, the answer is quite obvious that Brady consistently played on the better team/organization, + had more “luck”. Look no further than 2014-15 postseason: Rodger’s D surrenders what, 2 scores to Seahawks in final few minutes of NFCC and then loses OT coin toss. Meanwhile in the SB Brady’s D makes an all time goal line stop to beat those Seahawks. Unless we want to argue Brady makes his D play better… but come on.

 

Is Brady a better QB than Rodgers? I think so. Is he 6 SBs better? Of course not. 1 man, even the QB, can only impact the game so much.

[Soko]

There’s no one single reason you can point to that encompasses the answer to this question. Multiple people have already hit the nail on the head here. 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Yin-Yang