The Good, the Bad the time to complain vs. Titans

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Lolol enter the name calling right on que 

Loser leaves the forum for good or changes their username and creates a new profile lol

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I’m talking about last year specifically post hr3. But I hear you.
 

you’re reasonable so I’ll ask you realistically in your opinion when do you think we’ll get better than a 24 point offensive production?

Game 1: Carr is responsible for multiple missed TDs.  Just one and we are 24+

Game 2: Entire team takes their foot off the gas.  1 FG and we are 24+

Game 3: Offense was bad and missed plays everywhere.  We convert the 2 point conversion and are at 24 going into OT.

Game 4: If we can get on the same page we can score 30+.  If we score over 33 we are averaging 24+ for the year.  If this meeting went well we could be 24+ this week.  

The defense can improve but I think the offense playing a full game will lead to the defense averaging in the low 20s.  I think the offense can get to averaging high 20s by mid season if we start to mix up the play calling and can keep defenses on their heels.  They need to wake up and adapt to hide the deficiencies in the o-line.  We are so close to 24 that one play in each game and we are there.

[BayRaider]

Patrick Graham’s defenses play excellent for one half. 2nd Half of the Charger game, 1st Half of the Cardinal game, 2nd Half of the Titan game. But it’s still not a bad defense. It’s at leastttt average. Last year wasn’t too bad either. I’m just glad 2012-2020 is behind us. Bottom 5 Defense every year. 2016 we had a lot of turnovers, but it was still a Bottom 5 defense. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by BayRaider

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

Game 1: Carr is responsible for multiple missed TDs.  Just one and we are 24+

Game 2: Entire team takes their foot off the gas.  1 FG and we are 24+

Game 3: Offense was bad and missed plays everywhere.  We convert the 2 point conversion and are at 24 going into OT.

Game 4: If we can get on the same page we can score 30+.  If we score over 33 we are averaging 24+ for the year.  If this meeting went well we could be 24+ this week.  

The defense can improve but I think the offense playing a full game will lead to the defense averaging in the low 20s.  I think the offense can get to averaging high 20s by mid season if we start to mix up the play calling and can keep defenses on their heels.  They need to wake up and adapt to hide the deficiencies in the o-line.  We are so close to 24 that one play in each game and we are there.

Same thing last year mistakes led to low scoring outputs.
One play away from a playoff w etc

I think we should be able to put up at least 27 with this roster easily. If we could just put up 27 we’d be 3-0. We have to take a step forward soon

unfortunately I see den bringing it to carr and testing our oline. Den will be ultra motivated with their old guy jmd on the other side. Can’t see us putting up more than 21 vs den and I don’t know how our injured defense will hold up.

[Devilshark69]

3 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

We have been discussing a horrible o-line for six months now and many have said with the weapons we should be fine without a top o-line.  Now the o-line has become an excuse for many that believed Adams was more important than the line.

Okay, cmon man no one believed adams was more important than the o line. I’m not bringing up quotes but pretty much everyone said adams WONT matter if we can’t block anyone. SMH.

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Loser leaves the forum for good or changes their username and creates a new profile lol

Lololol 🎯

[Devilshark69]

2 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Lololol 🎯

That was a good one...👍🤣🤣

[drfrey13]

2 hours ago, Devilshark69 said:

Okay, cmon man no one believed adams was more important than the o line. I’m not bringing up quotes but pretty much everyone said adams WONT matter if we can’t block anyone. SMH.

I am not saying everyone who backed this team said it but there where plenty that thought McDaniels would hide the oline deficiencies and Carr's quick release would overcome the problems.  That is why we could "get him the weapons he has never had and we would be good".  I do not know where you stood but there was a few of us that said without protection it would not matter who his weapons where.

[NCOUGHMAN]

48 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I am not saying everyone who backed this team said it but there where plenty that thought McDaniels would hide the oline deficiencies and Carr's quick release would overcome the problems.  That is why we could "get him the weapons he has never had and we would be good".  I do not know where you stood but there was a few of us that said without protection it would not matter who his weapons where.

You my dogg but Ima havta side with dr on this one. the majority of posters were concerned about wrs and defense in the beginning of fa. Now maybe after adams came that changed and a majority believed in leatherwood stepping up year 2 at rt

[raidr4life]

19 hours ago, BayRaider said:

I agree. Although not really a fair comparison if Stidham doesn’t hit those guys. We know who Stidham is, just like we know who Carr is. Stidham is not a Top 45 QB in this league. And while us Carr Critics (I do not think Critic = Hater like these Carr Backers always argue) think low of Carr, we still realize he’s a starting NFL QB, bare minimum Top 25, while likely in the 13-18 range. Sure Carr shows flashes of Top 6-7 QB play all the time, but he shows flashes of Bottom 6-7 QB play alllll the time as well. For basically 7 years now. 

If you want to play it safe in this league, and keep a QB that is not that good and never will be anywhere close to elite, then you aren’t going to win in this league. You need to gamble in the draft and try to hit on a QB with upside in the first two rounds, preferably the first round. Preferably the Top 15 picks. Even if the QB is raw as hell. You want those crazy traits you can develop. That is the type of league we are in now. Guys like Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, etc dominate. A strong arm, some wheels and play extension ability, and supreme pocket presence. Tom Brady is of a dying breed at QB, this is the era of play extension, and Brady is still going strong due to having the greatest pocket presence that has ever existed. Carr’s pocket presence is abysmal, and he has no extension ability to compensate. He also has just way too many flaws, no anticipation throw skill, poor at throwing into tight coverage, etc. 

I’m willing to risk getting worse at the QB position, in a gamble to get better at the QB position. 

Don’t wanna take risks? Enjoy another 8 years of Derek Carr with 2-3 wildcard appearances and first round exits. 

The best teams take risks in life. All or nothing. You’re either the best, or the worst. The best businesses take risks in life to become the best. Either you’re the best, or you’re nothing. Risks can crush you, or they can make you the best. But I can assure you, what gets you nothing 100% of the time, is being conservative. That gets you mediocracy. That gets you average. End Result: Nothing. 

The argument is that less talented QB's do the little things Carr doesn't seem to grasp like accurate deep balls and when to use his legs to kkep drives alive, not fumble.

[NickButera]

20 hours ago, BayRaider said:

I agree. Although not really a fair comparison if Stidham doesn’t hit those guys. We know who Stidham is, just like we know who Carr is. Stidham is not a Top 45 QB in this league. And while us Carr Critics (I do not think Critic = Hater like these Carr Backers always argue) think low of Carr, we still realize he’s a starting NFL QB, bare minimum Top 25, while likely in the 13-18 range. Sure Carr shows flashes of Top 6-7 QB play all the time, but he shows flashes of Bottom 6-7 QB play alllll the time as well. For basically 7 years now. 

If you want to play it safe in this league, and keep a QB that is not that good and never will be anywhere close to elite, then you aren’t going to win in this league. You need to gamble in the draft and try to hit on a QB with upside in the first two rounds, preferably the first round. Preferably the Top 15 picks. Even if the QB is raw as hell. You want those crazy traits you can develop. That is the type of league we are in now. Guys like Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, etc dominate. A strong arm, some wheels and play extension ability, and supreme pocket presence. Tom Brady is of a dying breed at QB, this is the era of play extension, and Brady is still going strong due to having the greatest pocket presence that has ever existed. Carr’s pocket presence is abysmal, and he has no extension ability to compensate. He also has just way too many flaws, no anticipation throw skill, poor at throwing into tight coverage, etc. 

I’m willing to risk getting worse at the QB position, in a gamble to get better at the QB position. 

Don’t wanna take risks? Enjoy another 8 years of Derek Carr with 2-3 wildcard appearances and first round exits. 

The best teams take risks in life. All or nothing. You’re either the best, or the worst. The best businesses take risks in life to become the best. Either you’re the best, or you’re nothing. Risks can crush you, or they can make you the best. But I can assure you, what gets you nothing 100% of the time, is being conservative. That gets you mediocracy. That gets you average. End Result: Nothing. 

I agree with all this except one thing, timing. I think you keep Carr and create a great team around him (aka the Niners), because we can be an annual playoff team with Carr if we had a good team and coach. and THEN when the timings right you swing big for a QB, trade Carr, use future first rounders, etc. Get that piece and were an annual contender immediately. 

The problem I'm seeing is (unless McDaniels can turn this around) we're whiffing on every aspect of football, so swinging big on a QB is just meh right now. Timing doesn't seem right. Seems like even if we hit, we wouldn't be getting any better faster than if we did it the way Id prefer. Cheifs did it this way. Lamar, Herbert, burrow, Murray, hurts....etc etc are still trying to get to annual contention. 

[raidr4life]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

You my dogg but Ima havta side with dr on this one. the majority of posters were concerned about wrs and defense in the beginning of fa. Now maybe after adams came that changed and a majority believed in leatherwood stepping up year 2 at rt

Man Tannehill would have this offense humming. Sad but true.

[BobbyPhil1781]

5 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Lololol 🎯

You won't name the amount of games or take the bet. You wouldn't honor it anyway, he's right

[Devilshark69]

13 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I am not saying everyone who backed this team said it but there where plenty that thought McDaniels would hide the oline deficiencies and Carr's quick release would overcome the problems.  That is why we could "get him the weapons he has never had and we would be good".  I do not know where you stood but there was a few of us that said without protection it would not matter who his weapons where.

Do I ever post nonsense posts bro. This line was bad last year and we did nothing but add 2 late rd rooks and some FA no names. I was firmly in the sign Moses camp. Yep, people did say that, I however, am a realist. Parker and pleatherwhiff are PS players at best. Even if AL fixes his technique, he’s always been a yellow flag magnet. And Parker?.......lmfao! The X factor that hurt was good retiring. Hell, Moses wasn’t even a big dollar contract. Now , that being said. I’m cautiously optimistic about parham and Mumford. Hell, Munford was our highest rated guy last wk in his first start. So there’s hope.....a little bit. Lol

[true2form]

22 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Game 1: Carr is responsible for multiple missed TDs.  Just one and we are 24+

Game 2: Entire team takes their foot off the gas.  1 FG and we are 24+

Game 3: Offense was bad and missed plays everywhere.  We convert the 2 point conversion and are at 24 going into OT.

Game 4: If we can get on the same page we can score 30+.  If we score over 33 we are averaging 24+ for the year.  If this meeting went well we could be 24+ this week.  

The defense can improve but I think the offense playing a full game will lead to the defense averaging in the low 20s.  I think the offense can get to averaging high 20s by mid season if we start to mix up the play calling and can keep defenses on their heels.  They need to wake up and adapt to hide the deficiencies in the o-line.  We are so close to 24 that one play in each game and we are there.

Thanks for spelling this all out.  

So it all comes down to perspective.  It seems that just about every Raiders fan is saying what NCough is saying, simply, do more offense. Score 24+ and stop making mistakes.

I'm in the minority saying, we are playing a half a game, each game at best and we are close to doing what NCough(and most fans) is asking for. Can we just get out of our own way for once and what does that look like? Do we put up 30+ or 40+ when everything just clicks?

At this point the only thing that matters is winning.  Either side of the ball could play amazing from here on out, but if we don't win no one will care.