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Trevor Lawrence has arrived


notthatbluestuff

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1 minute ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Did you honestly not understand the point of those questions?

You are pretty easy to understand. You have an unwavering opinion that Urban is the worst all time. Nothing will beat it. So much so you will minimize the struggles of others to qualify your opinion. Its the type of thinking that creates real issues in the world. Luckily we are only talking about how a rookie year absolutely occurred. 

Man if the world actually worked like that. My boss sucked therefore you can't hold what I did against me. Only sports I guess. 

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Just now, Deadpulse said:

You are pretty easy to understand. You have an unwavering opinion that Urban is the worst all time. Nothing will beat it. So much so you will minimize the struggles of others to qualify your opinion. Its the type of thinking that creates real issues in the world. Luckily we are only talking about how a rookie year absolutely occurred. 

Man if the world actually worked like that. My boss sucked therefore you can't hold what I did against me. Only sports I guess. 

Do you think "Urban Meyer is the worst head coach of all time" is some kind of outlandish take or something? 

I mean, argue the point then. Actually say something engaging instead of "ok this guy is a troll." Tell me who's worse than Meyer. Obviously nobody else has done the things Urban did; no other NFL coach would do them. Not Nagy, not Culley, nobody. That's exactly what makes him the worst ever. 

"Those aren't the only bad things a coach has done." Name another coach with a comparable list of blunders and we'll decide whose list is worse. Are you going to do that?

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3 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Do you think "Urban Meyer is the worst head coach of all time" is some kind of outlandish take or something? 

I mean, argue the point then. Actually say something engaging instead of "ok this guy is a troll." Tell me who's worse than Meyer. Obviously nobody else has done the things Urban did; no other NFL coach would do them. Not Nagy, not Culley, nobody. That's exactly what makes him the worst ever. 

"Those aren't the only bad things a coach has done." Name another coach with a comparable list of blunders and we'll decide whose list is worse. Are you going to do that?

lol talk about not understanding. I never refuted Urban was potentially the worst coach. I just said it doesn't matter. 

would you look at that!

Since then I have been poking you and boy do you not disappoint. 

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1 minute ago, Deadpulse said:

lol talk about not understanding. I never refuted Urban was potentially the worst coach. I just said it doesn't matter. 

would you look at that!

Since then I have been poking you and boy do you not disappoint. 

"lol, syke I've just been poking you this whole time! I actually agree with you lol, boy I made a fool of you!"

And I'm the troll. 🙄

You're arguing that other rookies have had bad seasons with bad HCs. I'm saying no rookie has had an experience with any HC like Lawrence did with Meyer. That's why it does matter and we shouldn't hold his rookie year against him.

"But other coaches have been bad too, look at Nagy. Anyway it doesn't matter." Actually it does.

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41 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Not even close! Did Culley kick his kicker?

Probably couldn't if he tried. He did suspend a Walter Payton Man of the Year finalist. That's sort of hard to do.

41 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Did Culley fly home separately from his team after a TNF loss so he could stay at his bar and fondle some co-ed?

Culley doesn't own a bar, he was a career position coach. I doubt Dante Scarnaccia has a bar and he's a GOOD positional coach.

41 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Does Culley know who Aaron Donald is?

No, he doesn't. I can confidently say that. I sincerely wonder if Culley knew who Tyrod Taylor was (his starting QB).

41 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Did Culley call his coaching staff losers and say that he had better staff at Bowling Green?

He didn't coach at Bowling Green, so no. What he did do was bench three starters because he didn't like they talked back to him at a film session - two of which are now starters on good teams (49ers DE Charles Omenieu, Titans LB Zach Cunningham).

I'll take berating a coaching staff over pushing away guys who actually contribute on the field, thanks.

41 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Did Culley hire a known-to-be racist strength and conditioning coach?

No, because he didn't hire anybody - Jack Easterby did.

41 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Did Culley deflect blame onto his position coaches when questioned about the playing time of individuals?

Yes. 

41 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Did Culley admit that vaccination-status was a factor when making cuts? 

Those decisions weren't his to make. So not really relevant, a GM makes those decisions.

Now - can you tell me about the times where Urban Meyer nearly compromised an active criminal investigation by making unauthorized comments to the media about a player facing 23 sexual assault allegations? Because I don't think that's on Meyer's resume. (It's on Culley's, however).

You only bring up Urban Meyer because he's the name you recognize and the name pushed by the media. Saying Culley was leagues better only illustrates you didn't really pay attention to Culley and the things he was doing in Houston (or, ESPN wasn't telling you about a 30 year positional coach suddenly hired to be the Head Coach of a floundering franchise with a disgruntled QB with significant legal issues).

Expectations were low for whoever coached the Texans because of the Watson situation, so nobody really cared about the buffoonery that was David Culley because EVERYONE was paying attention to the tennis match between Rusty Hardin and Tony Buzbee. That doesn't make Culley less incompetent or disruptive, just means there was a bigger circus in town.

If a tree falls in the forest and you're not there to hear it, it still makes a sound. David Culley isn't as violent as Urban Meyer, but he's just as disruptive and incompetent - even if you didn't read an ESPN inside article about it.

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1 minute ago, ET80 said:

Probably couldn't if he tried. He did suspend a Walter Payton Man of the Year finalist. That's sort of hard to do.

Culley doesn't own a bar, he was a career position coach. I doubt Dante Scarnaccia has a bar and he's a GOOD positional coach.

No, he doesn't. I can confidently say that. I sincerely wonder if Culley knew who Tyrod Taylor was (his starting QB).

He didn't coach at Bowling Green, so no. What he did do was bench three starters because he didn't like they talked back to him at a film session - two of which are now starters on good teams (49ers DE Charles Omenieu, Titans LB Zach Cunningham).

I'll take berating a coaching staff over pushing away guys who actually contribute on the field, thanks.

No, because he didn't hire anybody - Jack Easterby did.

Yes. 

Those decisions weren't his to make. So not really relevant, a GM makes those decisions.

Now - can you tell me about the times where Urban Meyer nearly compromised an active criminal investigation by making unauthorized comments to the media about a player facing 23 sexual assault allegations? Because I don't think that's on Meyer's resume. (It's on Culley's, however).

This is a well-written post and I have respect for you. However, you've only really put forward two points against Culley; 1) he benched good players for backtalk and 2) the Watson stuff. 2) I'll need more details on, if you're willing to go into it. Certainly doesn't sound good, though. 1) doesn't strike me as anywhere near as bad as Meyer, sorry. Then you make a joke about Tyrod Taylor.

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David Culley isn't as violent as Urban Meyer, but he's just as disruptive and incompetent - even if you didn't read an ESPN inside article about it.

How? I'm actually asking.

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1 minute ago, notthatbluestuff said:

This is a well-written post and I have respect for you. However, you've only really put forward two points against Culley; 1) he benched good players for backtalk and 2) the Watson stuff. 2) I'll need more details on, if you're willing to go into it. Certainly doesn't sound good, though. 1) doesn't strike me as anywhere near as bad as Meyer, sorry. Then you make a joke about Tyrod Taylor.

I'll have to find the podcast, but Culley started sharing details on Watson and his status while HPDs investigation was ongoing. Tony Buzbee lost his mind (as he's apt to do) and even Rusty Hardin took exception to it - you know it's not good when opposing sides of a legal situation come together and say "dude, stop talking."

It got to a point where Culley wasn't allowed to do press conferences without Nick Caserio sitting next to him in fear of him saying something compromising. Is it nefarious like Meyer? Nah, but it's a level of incompetency rarely seen - a grown man needed a chaparone to do the basics of his job, in essence. Nick Caserio and Romeo Crennel would both wear headsets in game to tell Culley what to do - I mean, seriously? The guy couldn't be trusted to do his job.

As far as the players - look at what players were saying when they left the Texans mid season. Quotes like "it's a breath of fresh air" and "I feel like I can finally be an adult" and "[insert new team] is so much more organized and ran by professionals". Mind you, these weren't problematic players - these were respected locker room guys, guys voted as Team Captains through their career.

I'd understand if this was a bunch of guys with a rep for being malcontents, but this was a list of good guys: Randall Cobb, Zach Cunningham, Charles Omimehu, Mark Ingram, Justin Reid (the WPMOY finalist) and even 10 year vet and lifelong Texans' player Whitney Mercilius took subtle shots at the regime prior to leaving. Guys with a reputation of being company guys who don't air our dirty laundry and support the team through good and bad times - but in this case? Nah, not at all. 

15 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

doesn't strike me as anywhere near as bad as Meyer, sorry.

Not as nefarious or ill willed? Maybe. Bad? I'd argue that bad is subjective and this is pretty bad (for different reasons).

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55 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said:

Urban should be in jail for putting J-Rob in the doghouse to get touches for Carlos Hyde.

This seems so preposterous. Like, of all the crazy things Urbz did, I understand this less than I do kicking your kicker. Seriously lol 

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1 hour ago, ET80 said:

I'll have to find the podcast, but Culley started sharing details on Watson and his status while HPDs investigation was ongoing. Tony Buzbee lost his mind (as he's apt to do) and even Rusty Hardin took exception to it - you know it's not good when opposing sides of a legal situation come together and say "dude, stop talking."

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It got to a point where Culley wasn't allowed to do press conferences without Nick Caserio sitting next to him in fear of him saying something compromising. Is it nefarious like Meyer? Nah, but it's a level of incompetency rarely seen - a grown man needed a chaparone to do the basics of his job, in essence. Nick Caserio and Romeo Crennel would both wear headsets in game to tell Culley what to do - I mean, seriously? The guy couldn't be trusted to do his job.

I'll take your word on all this - and don't take this as sarcasm. I have no reason to doubt you. Evidently, Culley wasn't the sharpest knife in the box.

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As far as the players - look at what players were saying when they left the Texans mid season. Quotes like "it's a breath of fresh air" and "I feel like I can finally be an adult" and "[insert new team] is so much more organized and ran by professionals". Mind you, these weren't problematic players - these were respected locker room guys, guys voted as Team Captains through their career.

I'd understand if this was a bunch of guys with a rep for being malcontents, but this was a list of good guys: Randall Cobb, Zach Cunningham, Charles Omimehu, Mark Ingram, Justin Reid (the WPMOY finalist) and even 10 year vet and lifelong Texans' player Whitney Mercilius took subtle shots at the regime prior to leaving. Guys with a reputation of being company guys who don't air our dirty laundry and support the team through good and bad times - but in this case? Nah, not at all. 

All this is interesting for sure - but to my eye, I just think the 2021 Texans resembled a pro football squad to a slightly greater extent than Meyer's Jags did. Outside of the 4 wins, there were some passable, even decent performances (when they weren't getting shut out, of course). I thought they were going to be the league's first 0-17 team (I made a thread asking if it would happen - probably interpreted as another "troll" thread by the regulars here) and they exceeded my expectations (admittedly, I'm a relative layman who's not privy to what was going on on a day-to-day, game-by-game basis with the Texans - unlike you). Granted, even the blind squirrel finds the nut once in a while - or four times in Houston's case; or twice in Meyer's case with the Jags (!) - but was this all down to the players? Nothing to do with the coaching staff? How do you know that, or rather, why do you think that? Culley at least had lots of NFL experience; Urban had none and assumed he could treat grown men like college kids. Another poop-stained feather in Meyer's cap.

If the players themselves are commenting on a perceived lack of professionalism or organization, it's bad. However, similar things were said about Ben McAdoo with the Giants. Vikings players are talking about how toxic Zimmer's atmosphere was. The Urban stuff is just so much more uniquely awful to me - and that creates an environment where it's essentially impossible for a rookie QB to develop positively in even the slightest way. Mills actually, arguably, showed a lot more than Lawrence last season. Somehow, I doubt that's happening if he's on Meyer's NFL roster.

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Not as nefarious or ill willed? Maybe. Bad? I'd argue that bad is subjective and this is pretty bad (for different reasons).

Bad to differing degrees. On the face of it, benching good players for backtalk is petty at best, incompetent at worst considering coaches are in the business of winning (or supposed to be). But tough (or tough-acting) coaches do things like this. Belichick benches Butler minutes before the Super Bowl for reasons unknown (are the reasons known?) and it's frankly insane. He's the GOAT (imo) and even he's doing stuff the rest of us just can't understand or agree with. Do we know what those players said to Culley to warrant benching? They could've told the guy to shove his film session up his derrière - or they've could've said nothing particularly egregious. The fact remains that it's up to the head coach to decide what he considers poor conduct and what he doesn't. Bad? Yes. Historically bad? No. Kicking a kicker = historically bad.

All of this is to say I think it does matter that Lawrence had not just a bad coach, but an unprecedentedly bad coach (and human, by most accounts). I certainly don't think we can compare it in any way to Matt Nagy or any other coach whose main failings in the eyes of fans were on-field incompetence. Meyer failed on-field, off-field, under the field, you name it. So maybe giving Lawrence a pass for a bad rookie season isn't so crazy.

I just can't agree that most of what you've said compares to Meyer's mishaps on the same level of awful. But my opinion's not unwavering. Certainly there's a lot about Culley's tenure I don't know that you do. Maybe he really was a terrible, terrible, terrible coach. I'm more than happy to listen to different viewpoints - it's why I'm here on this website. I want to discuss football and learn about football - while talking seriously with other posters or trading a little banter. I like debate; I don't like being lazily dismissed. Don't throw the word "troll" around, argue your stance. I appreciate that you've done so.

How many Super Bowls do you think Lawrence will win?

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2 hours ago, notthatbluestuff said:

"lol, syke I've just been poking you this whole time! I actually agree with you lol, boy I made a fool of you!"

And I'm the troll. 🙄

You're arguing that other rookies have had bad seasons with bad HCs. I'm saying no rookie has had an experience with any HC like Lawrence did with Meyer. That's why it does matter and we shouldn't hold his rookie year against him.

"But other coaches have been bad too, look at Nagy. Anyway it doesn't matter." Actually it does.

my god, you really dont understand. I don't agree with you, however you obviously aren't open to the idea that in all of NFL history there have been worse coaches. So, like I have been saying for awhile, Im not arguing that point. I am instead pointing out that it is irrelevant to the original point of interest in this discussion, Trevors rookie year. 

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3 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

my god, you really dont understand. I don't agree with you, however you obviously aren't open to the idea that in all of NFL history there have been worse coaches. So, like I have been saying for awhile, Im not arguing that point.

I am open to that idea; see above. It's going to take an actual attempt at discussing it to convince me though. Still, according to you, it doesn't matter anyway. You don't want or need to convince me, that's fine.

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I am instead pointing out that it is irrelevant to the original point of interest in this discussion, Trevors rookie year.

I don't agree that it's irrelevant, though. I've made my reasons clear. Discuss it with me - or don't. It's up to you.

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1 hour ago, Forge said:

This seems so preposterous. Like, of all the crazy things Urbz did, I understand this less than I do kicking your kicker. Seriously lol 

It just stank of a narcissist not allowing a great player to be great because it wasn’t Urban who brought him in. I’m sure in his twisted mind, Robinson being good would be a sign of weakness to Meyer who couldn’t allow that to happen.

In short, crazies be crazy 

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