Zach Brown

[footy_29]

Greetings to all!

I've said this in a couple of threads, but making it plain. This player is overrated due his sideline-to-sideline range and speed to make tackles in the secondary and in the backfield. Yes, he can be everywhere, but is he where you need him to be when you need him to be? I say no.

One of the biggest reasons they should, is that some teams have made the transition to what the Redskins were trying to do: having a LB/S hybrid at ILB. Looks like Cravens quashed that. Deone Buchanan in 'Zona, Mark Barron in LA are two examples. Bring more speed to your defense by further relegating the 2-down thumper who is typically next to the Mike and instead find a player in the draft who can do that and will be available later.

Other 34 defenses have gone with traditional ILBs and more talented DBs, which is more likely. Fans have craved more impact from ILB post-Fletcher, and there is a need for talent infusion. There are some good LBs that will be available in round 2.

@Wozis right that the Redskins could officially switch to a 4-2-5 with Cravens as the fifth DB, but it would be contingent on that kind of player. Regardless, plenty of sub-packages in the NFL these days and as rookies get experience in practice they work their way into the games when veterans falter, they typically are fazed in with their best assets to protect their psychological development.

Already top earning players on this roster, you have to find bargains and keep the cupboards almost bare in other areas, and ILB can be one If you are successful drafting. Receiver is basically there now. If Doctson isn't injured last year, the Redskins probably avoid 6 million of Pryor, which is what they might spend next year with Doctson, Crowder, Harris, Quick/whoever and Grant/whoever and a day 3 rookie/Robert Davis.

Spaight staying healthy, continuing to show leadership/performance, how do you not walk away and spend your money where it's needed more? These guys are competing for one job, either the Redskins find a LB/S hybrid or an elite talent to help Spaight reach his ceiling and capitalize by playing behind Allen's right side. 

[turtle28]

I like that you are pointing out Brown’s flaws, because he has many that I’ve talked about but People usually just rip me for my analysis because it’s me saying it so sometimes I wonder, why bother?

But I say re-sign Brown if the deal is affordable but don’t give him a big contract. I don’t think he’s going to get offered a big contract, the film shows just what it did last year and just as you described an ultra athletic LB who often times freelances and doesn’t do his job but can make up for it “sometimes” makes up for it because of his speed/athleticism and a guy who actually might be worse than Perry Riley in coverage especially in recognition of backs coming out of the backfield and who he’s supposed to cover.

I definitely agree we need to draft an ILB/SS type as our nickel/dime ILB in round 2 or 3 and continue to develop JHC.

I’d have Spaight and Brown start and bring in one of those Dime LBs in passing situations - or both - or move Swearinger to dime ILB in clear passing situations and put another CB/S in like Everett (or someone we draft this year) or Dunbar.

[turtle28]

So, after two poor games in a row, what do we do with this guy in March if he doesn’t improve? I think Brown really misses playing with one of our veteran intelligent ILBs - Foster or Compton- because they made sure he knew his responsibility on each play. Spaight is making a lot of mistakes w/ missed tackles, poor run fills and lack of depth of depth in coverage too - which if they had better depth in coverage on the last 3 saints drives the saints might not score - but Spaight is young. 

Im very tempted to agree with @footy_29 here and let Brown walk, make Spaight the Ted/SLB and draft a WILB or sign @ different guy. We actually need to draft/sign 2 or 3 ILBs next offseason because while I like Foster & Comptons intelligence we need more athletic ILBs.

[Ghostnote]

I am inclined to disagree with letting Brown walk. The guy had nearly 150 tackles last year, and is on pace for nearly 170 tackles this year. London Fletcher did not play great coverage, but he was a side to side tackling machine and Zach Brown Is no different. Let go of Will Compton but keep Spaight. 

I do wonder if with Nicholson, we could actually play a single high S. 

[turtle28]

46 minutes ago, mike23md said:

I am inclined to disagree with letting Brown walk. The guy had nearly 150 tackles last year, and is on pace for nearly 170 tackles this year. London Fletcher did not play great coverage, but he was a side to side tackling machine and Zach Brown Is no different. Let go of Will Compton but keep Spaight. 

I do wonder if with Nicholson, we could actually play a single high S. 

The difference between Fletcher and Brown in coverage is that Fletch was usually in position, just his size and lack of great athletic ability didn’t allow him to make many plays in coverage or jump up and intercept or break up a play.

Brown is poor in coverage because he doesn’t get good depth when dropping into  zone, doesn’t zone match well and often times misses the running back leaking out of the backfield ala Perry Riley.

For me it depends on how expensive Brown is. If he’s less than $5 million to retain - which I think he will be based upon what Footy & Cooley point out and what I said above - then I’d keep him. If he demands more than that, we should let him walk and look to the draft.

I really think we need to draft 2 ILBs though; one of them being a 240 lb plus guy and the other being a 220 to 235 lb guy who’s Uber athletic. Someone like Shazier, Cravens, Buchanan, Barron or JHC.

As for Nicholson, when he is in, we do play some single high safety. So, I’d agree we can do that but we also need to mix up our  Coverages.

 

[lavar703]

So after what you consider two poor games, we're supposed to let the best ILB we've had in years walk away for nothing? Yeah, no. Pay him and put someone with talent next to him and in front of him. 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

So after what you consider two poor games, we're supposed to let the best ILB we've had in years walk away for nothing? Yeah, no. Pay him and put someone with talent next to him and in front of him. 

Depends on the cost. I don’t think for one second that we couldn’t draft an ILB in round 1 or 2 that could do what Brown does well and also can cover/lead a defense.

[MKnight82]

@footy_29 i would have to see where you plan on reinvesting that cap space (and to whom) before i could make a decision on Brown.  Right now I’m pretty strongly in the retain Brown camp.

[lavar703]

2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Depends on the cost. I don’t think for one second that we couldn’t draft an ILB in round 1 or 2 that could do what Brown does well and also can cover/lead a defense.

So we should let someone go that is probably a pro bowler two years in a row so we can then create a hole and have to waste our first round pick on that position? Lol

He's under thirty and he's probably the fastest ILB in football. The whole idea of letting him go is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever seen you suggest. You've made constant excuses for awful Will Compton but for some reason you dislike Brown? I just don't get it dude.

Edit*

Sorry for being a jerk there but the whole idea of letting Brown go makes me angry. We've been searching for a stud ILB for awhile and now we have one. Letting him go would be a major mistake. Don't create more holes when the team is going to have like $60M in cap space. 

[Doc Draper]

On 11/19/2017 at 7:16 AM, footy_29 said:

Greetings to all!

I've said this in a couple of threads, but making it plain. This player is overrated due his sideline-to-sideline range and speed to make tackles in the secondary and in the backfield. Yes, he can be everywhere, but is he where you need him to be when you need him to be? I say no.

One of the biggest reasons they should, is that some teams have made the transition to what the Redskins were trying to do: having a LB/S hybrid at ILB. Looks like Cravens quashed that. Deone Buchanan in 'Zona, Mark Barron in LA are two examples. Bring more speed to your defense by further relegating the 2-down thumper who is typically next to the Mike and instead find a player in the draft who can do that and will be available later.

Other 34 defenses have gone with traditional ILBs and more talented DBs, which is more likely. Fans have craved more impact from ILB post-Fletcher, and there is a need for talent infusion. There are some good LBs that will be available in round 2.

@Wozis right that the Redskins could officially switch to a 4-2-5 with Cravens as the fifth DB, but it would be contingent on that kind of player. Regardless, plenty of sub-packages in the NFL these days and as rookies get experience in practice they work their way into the games when veterans falter, they typically are fazed in with their best assets to protect their psychological development.

Already top earning players on this roster, you have to find bargains and keep the cupboards almost bare in other areas, and ILB can be one If you are successful drafting. Receiver is basically there now. If Doctson isn't injured last year, the Redskins probably avoid 6 million of Pryor, which is what they might spend next year with Doctson, Crowder, Harris, Quick/whoever and Grant/whoever and a day 3 rookie/Robert Davis.

Spaight staying healthy, continuing to show leadership/performance, how do you not walk away and spend your money where it's needed more? These guys are competing for one job, either the Redskins find a LB/S hybrid or an elite talent to help Spaight reach his ceiling and capitalize by playing behind Allen's right side. 

Footy, I couldn’t disagree with you more on his value. By far the defensive MVP and the first time in many many years we have a top ilb. The guy is awesome playing behind crap DL. He has to both continually fight off centers and guards because we don’t have a NT and he still is close to leading the nfl in tackles. Sign him and get some better DL or new coaches who trashcan the 3/4 

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, lavar703 said:

So we should let someone go that is probably a pro bowler two years in a row so we can then create a hole and have to waste our first round pick on that position? Lol

He's under thirty and he's probably the fastest ILB in football. The whole idea of letting him go is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever seen you suggest. You've made constant excuses for awful Will Compton but for some reason you dislike Brown? I just don't get it dude.

Edit*

Sorry for being a jerk there but the whole idea of letting Brown go makes me angry. We've been searching for a stud ILB for awhile and now we have one. Letting him go would be a major mistake. Don't create more holes when the team is going to have like $60M in cap space. 

He can’t cover! It’s a passing league and he’s one of the worst coverage linebackers in the nfl. It’s one reason the Bills didn’t re-sign him and no one else signed him long term despite how well he is around the line of scrimmage and how fast he is. 

Im all for keeping him but I wouldn’t give him a big deal. 

I didn’t make excuses for Compton. I just said last year he was the best he had and for what he lacks in athletic ability he makes up for in intelligence a lot like Fletcher but I sure wasn’t against upgrading Compton this past offseason. I wanted us to draft and ILB. I was all about the guys everyone else wanted in round 1, 2 or even later. I never thought Allen would fall and neither did anyone else. If he didn’t fall I wanted us to draft the ILB Davis who went to the Lions, Cunningham who went to the Texans or Macmillan who went to the Dolphins.

[Slateman]

Brown is really good playing the run. He is a liability in the passing game