GB defensive issues

[oldmansmell]

4 hours ago, squire12 said:

For sure.  Interesting that Rodgers took a bit of an issue with some things Jaire said which my be another thing brewing

Nah, he took issues with how the things Jaire said were presented to him. Jaire didn't say "we're gonna lose to the Jets", and that's what they made it sound like to Rodgers. He said "if we lose to the Jets I'll be concerned", which is not the same thing. 

[oldmansmell]

3 hours ago, Old Guy said:

Does anybody think our defense sucks again this year because of a lack of talent? 

No, but I am concerned about the communication, which ultimately also falls on the coordinator. I'm also not sure about how Quay and Devondre are doing in zone coverage, because they have multiple possible pre-snap assignments/post-snap duties that probably only a coaching staff could figure out. All I know definitively is that in week 1 there were multiple coverage rules where Quay's responsibility was Jefferson and that's already borderline fireable. 

[cannondale]

49 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

That defense was fine with that offense.

Woodson had 7 interceptions. Shields had 4. Williams had 4. Matthews had 3. Burnett had 3. Peprah had 5. Are you keeping track? 26 interceptions so far.

26 interceptions. You know how many we have this year? Know how many we had last year?

10/16 games that defense kept the opponent under 23 points.

Yards don’t matter. Especially when you’re taking the ball away. I’d take that defense over this defense against any team.

And proceeded to give up 37 against the Giants. Giving up 420 "meaningless" yards at home. 165 yards to Hakeem Hicks alone which was Capers specialty - allowing record stats. 1 measley sack for 5 yards. You keeping track ? That idiot cost the Packers 2 rings all by himself.

Edited October 10, 2022 by cannondale

[MacReady]

7 minutes ago, cannondale said:

And proceeded to give up 37 against the Giants. Giving up 420 "meaningless" yards at home. 165 yards to Hakeem Hicks alone which was Capers specialty - allowing record stats. 1 measley sack for 5 yards. You keeping track ? 

The defense was fine for that offense.

That offense **** the bed.

With an offense like the 2011 offense, you want turnovers. We got them.

With this offense you want quick stops and good field position. We’re not getting those.

The 2011 defense suited the 2011 offense. That’s not true for this team.

[cannondale]

2 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

The defense was fine for that offense.

That offense **** the bed.

With an offense like the 2011 offense, you want turnovers. We got them.

With this offense you want quick stops and good field position. We’re not getting those.

The 2011 defense suited the 2011 offense. That’s not true for this team.

That's the generic anthem. The offense sh*t the bed.  Because they couldn't score 52 against the Cardinals or 38 against the Giants or 46 against the 49ers or 45 against the Falcons or 38 against the 49ers. 

Yards equal points in the playoffs. That shouldn't be a hot take. Also, at some point in the playoffs you will face a team that has a defense that can hold any offense under 30. That also shouldn't be a hot take. History has proven that the only perfect defense for any team is a Top 10 scoring defense at worst if you want a chance to win a trophy

Edited October 10, 2022 by cannondale

[oldmansmell]

13 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

The 2011 defense suited the 2011 offense. That’s not true for this team.

It was also hot garbage with Peprah/Eric Walden/Frank Zombo/whoever we had ILB playing vital roles. Yeah, Capers gets a lot of flack for his longevity and the lack of talent he had here, but we'd be winning games with him right now. Honestly, I'm sick of following the trends, get like Zimmer/Fangio/ or Lovie when he gets fired and just figure it out with dudes who have put up SB caliber defenses before.   

[Rainmaker90]

It seems like this scheme/philosophy revolves around offenses making a mistake and or individuals making big plays . It feels like they don’t even try to use the scheme to confuse/beat the offense. They’re going to do, what they’re gonna do no matter if Justin Jefferson is going off or NE has their 3rd stringer/brings in an extra O lineman or Daniel Jones isn’t making mistakes. They are not going to adjust their scheme and play the chess match of the game. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Rainmaker90

[packfanfb]

10 hours ago, Old Guy said:

Does anybody think our defense sucks again this year because of a lack of talent? 

I didn't think so but thought I'd ask! We are loaded with talent on defense and the coaching staff is not putting them in positions to succeed. It's really that simple. 

Joe's gotta go! 

Not a lack of talent as a whole, but there are some problems that people with Packers goggles (even myself at times) overlook. 

1. Darnell Savage is a very average player who often plays below average football. He's basically HHCD without the interceptions and it's time we recognize that. 
2. Campbell is playing like the Campbell who nobody wanted before he came to GB. Is that his true self or will he return to form after the huge contract we gave him? 
3. Walker is a rookie so he gets a pass somewhat but he's basically a mess out there. You watch two of the best defenses in football right now (TB and SF) and their defense flows through the outstanding play of their ILBs. Warner and Greenlaw might be the best pair in the league right now. As of October, Campbell and Walker aren't getting it done and it's hurting us, especially in the middle of the field. 
4. Eric Stokes is having a sophomore slump. When teams need a big play, they target him. He's not a bad player by any means, but he hasn't taken the next step forward as an NFL corner. 

The biggest problem with our defense, and it's probably a blend of scheme plus individual play, is the lack of turnovers. The NFL is a game of momentum. Even defenses that are consistently forcing punts and keeping yard/point totals at reasonable levels aren't "great" defenses because great defenses take the ball away. Great defenses don't simply force punts so the offense has to go 80 yards every single drive for a score. They take the ball away in the opponent's territory once or twice a game so the offense can steal some easier points. So far this season we have 1 int and it basically came during garbage time on a diving heroic play by Alexander. In 5 games, we have not had a single player be in a position to jump a route or have a ball thrown to them due to pressure, etc. That's almost impossible to fathom just based on the law of averages. Statistically, just by dumb luck, we should have had one of those by now. Thankfully, we forced a few fumbles against TB and NE, otherwise, we'd be 1-4 right now. 

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Turnovers don't come from playing passive, bending defense

[GHARMON9]

9 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

No one said that this is a bad defense, it's probably a 15-20th ranked defense in DVOA come next week. That's unacceptable with the financial and draft investment made into the unit. Aaron Rodgers needs to be a top 5 QB because he's paid like one, being average is not acceptable for this D because we've sacrificed player acquisition on offense to make it a top 5 unit.

You must have been completely skipped all the people replying to me in the past 24 hours. Plenty of people have said we have a bad Defense.

Edited October 10, 2022 by GHARMON9

[minnypackerfan]

This defense does not dictate to anyone.  It allows offenses to dictate to them.  That has to suck for a defender....always back on your heels.  Its one thing to lose where you are too aggressive, but its another for a defensive player to lose like we're losing and play a passive shell defense.  Its got to hurt their pride.  Its almost like the coaching staff is saying we don't believe we have the individual talent on the defense to win one on one battles.  Maybe this is why Alexander is starting to speak up.

[Mr Anonymous]

The Packers defensive philosophy is summed up as: play risk averse and hope the opposing offense stops itself through its own errors. That's defense you play when you lack talent. When you have the talent the Packers possess at key positions of CB, OLB, and DT, you impose your will on the opponent, not sit back and hope people drop passes, and miss open receivers.

What's wild is they don't even have to take too much risk and blitz often. They have the luxury of having the talent to put pressure on offenses without have to manufacture it constantly with blitzes. They simply need to be more aggressive with their coverage. What's the point of loading up in your secondary of you're going to play 10 yards off everyone?

You don't desire to have a pass rush off the edge and the middle so that you can count on your secondary to cover for 6 seconds. Deion Sanders and Darrell Revis would get picked apart playing that way. You have those key players at line of scrimmage so that your secondary can play tight aggressive coverage for 2-3 seconds. And they have the DBs to thrive in that style. It's maddening.

[GHARMON9]

9 hours ago, Norm said:

It's playing well below what it should for the talent it has, no the point stats so far are not that bad overall but that is not a good defense. Those numbers make it sound legendary but it's just flat out obviously not.

100% agree. The ROI is bad.
 

But you still have a good unit, relative to the majority of the league.  It can get much worse. 

[Reaper]

This kind of reminds me of last year when MLF allegedly told Barry to pressure more or something to that effect. If he has to do that again he needs to fire the guy and get an aggressive D mind in the building. If the talent is real this defense is being way under utilized.

[Leader]

23 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Not a lack of talent as a whole, but there are some problems that people with Packers goggles (even myself at times) overlook. 

1. Darnell Savage is a very average player who often plays below average football. He's basically HHCD without the interceptions and it's time we recognize that. 
2. Campbell is playing like the Campbell who nobody wanted before he came to GB. Is that his true self or will he return to form after the huge contract we gave him? 
3. Walker is a rookie so he gets a pass somewhat but he's basically a mess out there. You watch two of the best defenses in football right now (TB and SF) and their defense flows through the outstanding play of their ILBs. Warner and Greenlaw might be the best pair in the league right now. As of October, Campbell and Walker aren't getting it done and it's hurting us, especially in the middle of the field. 
4. Eric Stokes is having a sophomore slump. When teams need a big play, they target him. He's not a bad player by any means, but he hasn't taken the next step forward as an NFL corner. 

The biggest problem with our defense, and it's probably a blend of scheme plus individual play, is the lack of turnovers. The NFL is a game of momentum. Even defenses that are consistently forcing punts and keeping yard/point totals at reasonable levels aren't "great" defenses because great defenses take the ball away. Great defenses don't simply force punts so the offense has to go 80 yards every single drive for a score. They take the ball away in the opponent's territory once or twice a game so the offense can steal some easier points. So far this season we have 1 int and it basically came during garbage time on a diving heroic play by Alexander. In 5 games, we have not had a single player be in a position to jump a route or have a ball thrown to them due to pressure, etc. That's almost impossible to fathom just based on the law of averages. Statistically, just by dumb luck, we should have had one of those by now. Thankfully, we forced a few fumbles against TB and NE, otherwise, we'd be 1-4 right now. 

 

Agree - Quay excels now when he's chasing someone down - speed on speed - and he has a lane. He's not making it thru the clutter in front of him often enough though.