Joe Barry'd again

[Mazrimiv]

So apparently it took MLF a day and a half to go over every facet of the program and determine all was good with the staff.

[{Family Ghost}]

2 hours ago, Leader said:

So two consecutive seasons of not reaching the playoffs is grounds for firing all the pillars or power?
Standards are pretty high around Green Bay.

If they bring Rodgers back, yes.  If they move on to Love they would be allowed a little more leeway.  

[squire12]

11 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said:

So apparently it took MLF a day and a half to go over every facet of the program and determine all was good with the staff.

path of least resistance/work/effort

[persiandud]

shockingly bad decision to bring Joe Barry back for 2023. losing faith in MLF

 

[BluePacker]

3 hours ago, persiandud said:

shockingly bad decision to bring Joe Barry back for 2023. losing faith in MLF

 

I feel the same way. I had high hopes for him, I thought he was going to be an young, aggressive, creative HC that we all wanted after MM. What I think we have is a coach too loyal to "friends" as coaches and unwilling to hold both coaches and players accountable. I hope he proves me wrong, but he is trending the wrong direction. 

[packfanfb]

On 1/2/2023 at 12:18 PM, Packerraymond said:

Congrats to all the knowledgeable posters on here for winning this year's edition of "Are You Smarter Than Joe Barry?" Sad that it was obvious to so many for so long what was wrong with this defense and our coaching staff spent 80% of the year diddling around with their thumbs in their butt wasting this season.

Nothing has changed schematically or personnel wise for this D. We didn't switch to a 4-3 or add Robert Quinn or Bradley Chubb at the deadline. What we did was finally match the personality of our players and inspire our group of defenders. We attacked instead of defending.

You can see just how intense and ratcheted up Jaire is when he's told he's going to perform the most obvious task in the world to us fans, shadowing the other teams best player. You can see how much his intensity and swag brings out the same throughout the entire defensive room. This defense is full of swag and talkers. They don't want to sit 10 yards off the LOS and bend and not break. Jaire, Sul, Kenny, Savage, you could literally see those guys sleep walking through this season. Unrecognizable to the players we've seen over the last 6 quarters. I'll go down in the playoffs swinging with this group and be proud of it any day, but if we go into the playoffs and play scared again, it's game over.

So congrats Joe Barry, it took you 2 years to figure out what most of the knowledgeable members of the fanbase were clamoring for the moment we fired Pettine. When the attitude and desire of the gameplan matches the attitude and swagger of our players, good things happen.

Unfortunately, this didn't age well for Joe. 

[MacReady]

It’s really not the worst thing in the world if Rodgers leaves.

We have to expect a 5 or 6 win season in Love’s first year. That’s one where you almost want a bad defense in order to test Love’s ability to play from behind often.

You can even live with Barry the year after. Love’s second year needs to be a competitive playoff loss. Let them know what it takes to win a close playoff game by winning or losing the first one. A Super Bowl in his first postseason is not to be anticipated.

Third year of Love’s starting career is when you have to have made a change.

[Old Guy]

16 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

It’s really not the worst thing in the world if Rodgers leaves.

We have to expect a 5 or 6 win season in Love’s first year. That’s one where you almost want a bad defense in order to test Love’s ability to play from behind often.

You can even live with Barry the year after. Love’s second year needs to be a competitive playoff loss. Let them know what it takes to win a close playoff game by winning or losing the first one. A Super Bowl in his first postseason is not to be anticipated.

Third year of Love’s starting career is when you have to have made a change.

This is an awful take. We have a lot of very talented, young defensive players on their first contract. We need to have their DC in place now. Those players need to develop and grow together in the scheme they will be running in their second contract. 

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, BluePacker said:

I feel the same way. I had high hopes for him, I thought he was going to be an young, aggressive, creative HC that we all wanted after MM. What I think we have is a coach too loyal to "friends" as coaches and unwilling to hold both coaches and players accountable. I hope he proves me wrong, but he is trending the wrong direction. 

I still don't know if MLF is an elite coach, good coach or average coach.

I do know that he is not a bad or poor coach.  At all.

I do feel that if we were to move on from him, whenever that may be, it would take him about 20 minutes to find a new HC job.  

I view him kind of like the Dak Prescott's, Derrick Carr's of the NFL coaches.  Like they are good, but maybe not good enough to win the big one for you.  So you really need to figure out what else they need to win big, or you gotta have the stones to move on from them, despite them being pretty good.

[vegas492]

40 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

It’s really not the worst thing in the world if Rodgers leaves.

We have to expect a 5 or 6 win season in Love’s first year. That’s one where you almost want a bad defense in order to test Love’s ability to play from behind often.

You can even live with Barry the year after. Love’s second year needs to be a competitive playoff loss. Let them know what it takes to win a close playoff game by winning or losing the first one. A Super Bowl in his first postseason is not to be anticipated.

Third year of Love’s starting career is when you have to have made a change.

I agree with your premise.

When good teams have a "down year", like breaking in a new QB, you get higher draft picks.  When you hit on those higher picks, and still have a good young core, it can lead to an outstanding run.

We've seen it happen here.

It can happen again.  

About the only wildcard in the scenario is....Love.  I think that he could match Arod's wins from this past season and maybe improve on them, just by playing within the offense more.  And he may help it by being able to take snaps under center and simply get rid of the ball on time where it is supposed to go.  And by running bootlegs that don't look geriatric.

He could also throw picks at an astronomical rate.  Hence the boom or bust with him and wildcard nature.

[Packerraymond]

45 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

This is an awful take. We have a lot of very talented, young defensive players on their first contract. We need to have their DC in place now. Those players need to develop and grow together in the scheme they will be running in their second contract. 

Defensive playbooks are not offense. There's a reason a lot of teams see significant increases in performance in year 1 under a DC. The schemes are relatively all the same. Cover 3 under Joe Barry is the same Cover 3 that Mike Pettine and Dom Capers run. DC's have less to do with development than position coaches.

Think we'd all like Barry fired, but having him around for another year isn't going to hurt Quay, Wyatt or Stokes.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

1 hour ago, BluePacker said:

I feel the same way. I had high hopes for him, I thought he was going to be an young, aggressive, creative HC that we all wanted after MM. What I think we have is a coach too loyal to "friends" as coaches and unwilling to hold both coaches and players accountable. I hope he proves me wrong, but he is trending the wrong direction. 

Agreed. I think MLF is fundamentally a conservative guy who would rather make a mistake by doing to little than make a mistake by doing too much. It will be his undoing.

[BluePacker]

6 hours ago, vegas492 said:

I still don't know if MLF is an elite coach, good coach or average coach.

I do know that he is not a bad or poor coach.  At all.

I do feel that if we were to move on from him, whenever that may be, it would take him about 20 minutes to find a new HC job.  

I view him kind of like the Dak Prescott's, Derrick Carr's of the NFL coaches.  Like they are good, but maybe not good enough to win the big one for you.  So you really need to figure out what else they need to win big, or you gotta have the stones to move on from them, despite them being pretty good.

I think this is a fair take. I'm MLF's case I think the GM/President have to have the insight to identify areas of weakness with MLF (such as loyalty to poor coordinators) and the stones to require MLF to do something about those weaknesses. I'm not so sure that's possible either right now. 

I think MLF could be an excellent head coach... IF he has the right supporting cast. That means hungry, aggressive, and skilled OC and DC.

[Jaire_Island]

7 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

It’s really not the worst thing in the world if Rodgers leaves.

We have to expect a 5 or 6 win season in Love’s first year. That’s one where you almost want a bad defense in order to test Love’s ability to play from behind often.

You can even live with Barry the year after. Love’s second year needs to be a competitive playoff loss. Let them know what it takes to win a close playoff game by winning or losing the first one. A Super Bowl in his first postseason is not to be anticipated.

Third year of Love’s starting career is when you have to have made a change.

What if Rodgers is coming back?

i am sick of both Arod and Barry coming back. More inclined towards Arod leaving than Barry. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Jaire_Island

[MrBobGray]

Random thoughts I felt the need to put somewhere.

The Lions' offense finished the season ranked 5th in points, 4th in yards.  They scored 30+ 8 times, including 3 games of 40+.  In the 8 games they played between the two Packers games (weeks 10 through 17) they were averaging 30.625 points/game.  Averaging.  In two games against Green Bay, they scored 35 points total.  17.5 points/game on average.  Barry's defense held the Lions to their 3rd and 4th worst games of their season scoring-wise. 

The Lions' defense finished the season ranked 28th in points, 32nd in yards.  Dead last, woo hoo.  They allowed 30+ 5 times.  Now granted, they finished the season playing much, much better, but they still allowed an average of 22.125 points for those same 8 games mentioned above.  Green Bay scored 9 and 16 points, or 25 points total.  They managed to score roughly the Lions per game average across two games, against the 32nd/28th ranked defense in football.

More notes:

• The offense finished 20th in 1st downs gained.  The defense finished 10th.
• The offense finished 17th in 3rd down %, the defense finished 8th.
• The offense finished 28th in 4th down %, the defense finished 23rd.
• The offense finished 24th in red zone TD %, the defense finished 13th.
• The offense had the 6th best starting position per drive this season.  They were 16th in % of drives ending in a score.  Defense had the 19th best starting position in football per drive.  They were 10th in % of drives ending in a score.
• The offense finished 17th in turnover %.  The defense finished 7th.

Both the defense and offense missed key starters, but the offense had the reigning MVP two years running at the helm for all 17 games.  The defense performed at about the level of their healthy talent IMO, but the offense really underperformed their talent level.