Joe Barry'd again

[MrBobGray]

With the disclaimer that I haven't watched the film of the Giants game yet, I'm not sure I agree with a lot of the hate toward Barry. I doubt I'll have time to re-watch this stuff as closely as I'd like, but from the parts of the Bucs and Pats games I've had time to go over, either all or nearly all of the big plays in the passing game have come against single high man coverage.  Stokes and Douglas have been gotten beaten badly at least twice downfield in man for sure. 

Having said that, I'd have to double check but I'm pretty sure every one of those was in off man, and that's where my ire is primarily drawn.  This corner group is absolute doodoo in off man coverage, and they have to stop trying to run it, ever, like at all.  Stokes is appallingly bad at it; he just doesn't have the instincts and/or film study to know the route and feel it as it comes, and he loses his man with frightening regularity out there.  Like, at least two occasions against the Pats he was turned completely around and was nowhere near the completed pass.  Douglas just doesn't have the hips to be trying to read a two way go from ten yards away; he needs to either be reading it in zone or pressed up so he can keep his hands on his man. 

I haven't actually verified this through film study, but I'm almost certain part of the reason this team gives up so many damn yards to crossers is they're trying to cover em in man from half a football field away.

Edited October 11, 2022 by MrBobGray

[Mr. Fussnputz]

This defense is a head scratcher. While the offense lacks talent as an excuse, the defense is stacked with talent. That said, the loss of Z cannot be discounted. He was a fire breather out there, even last year if just from the sidelines. I haven't seen anyone else step up and take that role. Even more important though is the coaching. This is such a predictable defense. Hardly any blitzing, soft zones. Offensive coordinators must love game planning for this defense. I don't know what Barry thinks he's accomplishing. This offense is not capable of scoring a lot of points on anywhere near a consistent basis. To compensate for the offense, this defense has to sell out, play aggressively and create turnovers. The maddening thing is, they have the talent to do that, but sit in that soft zone. They should be playing press man coverage and blitzing like crazy. Yeah, they'll get burned once in a while, but they're getting burned now and are getting no turnovers, while the opponents are controlling the ball. Our mediocre offense needs more opportunities, not fewer, and this defense isn't giving them more.

This is the side of the ball where some much needed improvements could be made that could salvage the season. If MLF decides to stand pat on defense, this is going to be a long season. The worst part is, from a fan perspective, this isn't even a fun style of football to watch, on offense or defense. I don't mind so much when they lose if they keep it exciting and interesting. This is just boring.

[skibrett15]

10 hours ago, Sandy said:

I'm trying to think of any recent memory in which a coordinator was fired mid-season while the head coach was not.

John Harbaugh has done this a few times during his tenure IIRC

[R T]

Teams with the highest percentage of blitzing per play. 

1.) Giants 43.3% - 2.) Cardinals 41.7% - 3.) Lions 35.9% - 4.) Broncos 33.9% - 5.) Packers 33.8%

Team defenses with the fewest total yards allowed.

1.) 49ers 1246 - 2.) Bills 1302 - 3.) Broncos 1445 - 4.) Eagles 1472 - 5.) Packers 1517

Team defenses with the fewest passing yards allowed. 

1.) Broncos 883 - 2.) Packers 885 - 3.) 49ers 889 - 4.) Bills 913 - 5.) Eagles 947

 

 

 

[MacReady]

9 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

John Harbaugh has done this a few times during his tenure IIRC

Like I said, they did it the last time they won the Super Bowl.

I cannot abide this bull**** with keeping Barry.

Historically, defensive coordinators have their best year in their first or second year.

We should be hiring new talent hungry for advancement. The only way to advance from a DC to a head coach is to take risks and come up with the best defense suited to your team.

We hired a guy who has fallen his way to the top. We hired a guy not based on merit or future outlook, but because of comfortability.

It is unacceptable.

[MacReady]

1 minute ago, R T said:

Teams with the highest percentage of blitzing per play. 

1.) Giants 43.3% - 2.) Cardinals 41.7% - 3.) Lions 35.9% - 4.) Broncos 33.9% - 5.) Packers 33.8%

Team defenses with the fewest total yards allowed.

1.) 49ers 1246 - 2.) Bills 1302 - 3.) Broncos 1445 - 4.) Eagles 1472 - 5.) Packers 1517

Team defenses with the fewest passing yards allowed. 

1.) Broncos 883 - 2.) Packers 885 - 3.) 49ers 889 - 4.) Bills 913 - 5.) Eagles 947

 

 

 

I do not believe this.

Do we ever have Smith, Gary, Clark plus two other DL on the field at a time?

I want to know how they’re defining blitz.

I feel like I’ve seen Quay blitzing a few times, but I have never once seen us send a DB.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

7 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I do not believe this.

Do we ever have Smith, Gary, Clark plus two other DL on the field at a time?

I want to know how they’re defining blitz.

I feel like I’ve seen Quay blitzing a few times, but I have never once seen us send a DB.

I agree. Something doesn't add up. Just like the offense being #8 in DVOA. Something's just not being captured by the stats. 

[MacReady]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

I agree. Something doesn't add up. Just like the offense being #8 in DVOA. Something's just not being captured by the stats. 

It’s something preternatural, but it’s there. I think of them as the Will Drives.

Any time a team wills itself to a lo mg drive, they get it.

We do not have that drive killer mentality. We did last year with Rasul, but I feel like that magic has died.

[packfanfb]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

I agree. Something doesn't add up. Just like the offense being #8 in DVOA. Something's just not being captured by the stats. 

Stats don't capture Fields, Zappe, Brady without WR 1-3 and Daniel Jones (who picked us apart). One of the reasons why we're bottom 10 in DVOA. 

[incognito_man]

29 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Stats don't capture Fields, Zappe, Brady without WR 1-3 and Daniel Jones (who picked us apart). One of the reasons why we're bottom 10 in DVOA. 

The first sentence is absolutely true, but then you seem to contradict it with your last. 

DVOA does NOT capture those things and this is cannot be a reason why we are ranked that way in DVOA.

[MacReady]

I’m not doubting the overall passing numbers, I’m doubting the blitz numbers.

[Mr Anonymous]

12 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

I'm not sure I agree with a lot of the hate toward Barry. 

This corner group is absolute doodoo in off man coverage, and they have to stop trying to run it, ever, like at all. 

Bob I love ya but these 2 sentences are in complete contradiction to one another. I know you realize who the person is who is deploying the secondary in off man coverage.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Mr Anonymous

[Rainmaker90]

Can someone who understands the Xs and Os better than I do maybe @AlexGreen#20ir @Packerraymond

explain to me why teams prefer zone coverage to man ?

 

It seems like zone needs really good communication, a lot of extra thinking, timing to be on point and all parts working in perfect synergy in order for it to be working effectively. 
 

I also think it would be harder helping the weakest link, without sacrificing your assigned zone . 
 

I do not know much about the topic at all so I could be wrong on all of it. 

[packfanfb]

Even if this scheme was working, can we all agree that it must be boring as hell for the players, especially the DBs? "Hey guys, welcome to the defense where you'll never be asked, nor will you get an opportunity. to make a play on the ball. Instead, just let them catch it, and then you run up and tackle them."  

[Old Guy]

12 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Even if this scheme was working, can we all agree that it must be boring as hell for the players, especially the DBs? "Hey guys, welcome to the defense where you'll never be asked, nor will you get an opportunity. to make a play on the ball. Instead, just let them catch it, and then you run up and tackle them."  

I said this in another thread earlier. We play to give them 5-7 yards at will and a team willing to take those plays will never punt against us. The 1st and 20 against the Giants where JA was 12 yards off the LOS is just one example of that. The guy was just called up from the practice squad and our all-pro CB is giving a 12-yard cushion. I don't for one second believe that was Ja doing that. It was the design of the defense. 

I just want this defense to reach its potential and you drafted a bunch of studs to play downhill. Instead, we are letting them die via 1000 paper cuts. So frustrating to watch. 

I am thankful for my son's 1:00 EST soccer game on Sunday so I don't have to watch much of this game. I don't know if my TV will survive another game being called like that by our DC. I'm joking about the TV but the frustration is real.