Joe Barry'd again

[Old Guy]

52 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said:

Can someone who understands the Xs and Os better than I do maybe @AlexGreen#20ir @Packerraymond

explain to me why teams prefer zone coverage to man ?

 

It seems like zone needs really good communication, a lot of extra thinking, timing to be on point and all parts working in perfect synergy in order for it to be working effectively. 
 

I also think it would be harder helping the weakest link, without sacrificing your assigned zone . 
 

I do not know much about the topic at all so I could be wrong on all of it. 

I think @AlexGreen#20is pretty frustrated with the Packers. He hasn't been around nearly as much lately. Of course, live might actually be getting in the way of this forum. 

[Rainmaker90]

50 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

I think @AlexGreen#20is pretty frustrated with the Packers. He hasn't been around nearly as much lately. Of course, live might actually be getting in the way of this forum. 

Anyone who understands the Xs and Os really, I am just curious on why coaches prefer zone, it seems much more complicated. 

[packfanfb]

Interesting comments here. Forgot Denver hired Evero who reportedly was the runner up to Barry for us (after Leonhard said no). 

[vegas492]

17 hours ago, R T said:

And I'm sure your selective memory will say that the 2010 team felt 'for realsies' after 5 games also. That team was 3-3 and people were losing their minds, leading Rodgers to come with his R-E-L-A-X quote on his radio show. Game 8 that year was against the Rex Ryan led Jets and a 9-0 win gave fans little convenience that they could be a contending team with that offense. It's a long season and they are a work in progress, they didn't play the SB last Sunday and they are not playing it this Sunday. They are one game out of first place with 12 to play, just find ways to win no matter how ugly it may be, and things will work itself out. 

And yes, they are one of the most talented teams in the NFC.    

We are not elite in the NFC.  How many teams again?  16?  To be "elite" out of 16 teams, I'd say you need to be top 2, or top 3.  That isn't us.  We are in a tier, right now, clearly below elite.  

And with how we've been playing?  Ungh.  We've won ugly against Justin Fields, a third stringer at NE, and Brady without any of his WR's.  We've lost very decisively to Cousins and pretty soundly to Daniel Freakin' Jones.  

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, Rainmaker90 said:

Can someone who understands the Xs and Os better than I do maybe @AlexGreen#20ir @Packerraymond

explain to me why teams prefer zone coverage to man ?

 

It seems like zone needs really good communication, a lot of extra thinking, timing to be on point and all parts working in perfect synergy in order for it to be working effectively. 
 

I also think it would be harder helping the weakest link, without sacrificing your assigned zone . 
 

I do not know much about the topic at all so I could be wrong on all of it. 

I'm not sure coaches prefer zone to M2M as much as you think.  Zone is effectively about keeping the ball in front of the DBs.  As long as they're not giving up big plays, the defense is betting that the QB is either going to miss open targets or throw interceptions.  There's more risk involved with M2M in that if a CB misses their press, the defense is susceptible to big plays.

[CWood21]

16 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said:

Anyone who understands the Xs and Os really, I am just curious on why coaches prefer zone, it seems much more complicated. 

Not necessarily.  You're relying on players with proper technique (with press coverage) and that they have the physical abilities to respond.  If a player gets beat off the LOS, how many of CBs have the recovery speed to get back in the hip of the WR?  It's honestly kind of reminiscent of when teams started moving from 4-3 defenses to 3-4 defenses to utilize those undersized pass rushers that would get washed out as traditional 4-3 DEs.

[vegas492]

16 hours ago, Old Guy said:

Better roster? I get you are upset with the way we've played but it's a long season. This team is loaded and will get it figured out. My concern is the DC. Not sure he going to be able to adapt and make the changes needed. 

You are not giving enough credit to the Vikings roster.

We have more perceived talent on defense than they do.  Particularly at corner.

They have us easily at WR.  And the OL right now.  RB's are pretty similar...but theirs is hurt again.  And with that o-line and those offensive weapons, Cousins is just a little tick below Rodgers at QB.

My guess is that they will implode a little at some point and time.  Injuries or Kirk being Kirk, whereas we can get better.  It's a marathon, not a sprint.  But still, with how putrid our offense has been for these first 5 games, I'm not sure just how much better it will ever become.  

I have little doubt that our D can and will get better, as you stated, it is more scheme than players.  But....we've been known to be very stubborn with scheme before.  If ours changes, label me as surprised.

[Rainmaker90]

9 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I'm not sure coaches prefer zone to M2M as much as you think.  Zone is effectively about keeping the ball in front of the DBs.  As long as they're not giving up big plays, the defense is betting that the QB is either going to miss open targets or throw interceptions.  There's more risk involved with M2M in that if a CB misses their press, the defense is susceptible to big plays.

That’s understandable . Aren’t we in zone for a vast majority of the snaps?

[CWood21]

Just now, Rainmaker90 said:

That’s understandable . Aren’t we in zone for a vast majority of the snaps?

Yes.  Barry is effectively betting on the QB making a mistake.  At the very least, he's very confident in our pass rush.

[Rainmaker90]

28 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Yes.  Barry is effectively betting on the QB making a mistake.  At the very least, he's very confident in our pass rush.

Is it a correct statement to say that he really doesn't engage in the chess match? That the D is banking on individuals dominating and the QB making the mistake. That Barry really doesn't try to confuse the QB, and if so how? 

[CWood21]

Just now, Rainmaker90 said:

Is it a correct statement to say that he really doesn't engage in the chess match? That the D is banking on individuals dominating and the QB making the mistake. That Barry really doesn't try to confuse the QB, and if so how? 

I mean, I'd say no.  I think he's a DC whose going to run his scheme and not let the offense dictate what they're going to do.

[incognito_man]

1 hour ago, packfanfb said:

Interesting comments here. Forgot Denver hired Evero who reportedly was the runner up to Barry for us (after Leonhard said no). 

"But the Packers’ third-down performance is also a product of their changing fronts. The Packers lead the league in blitz rate on first and second down at 43.2 percent—but they aren’t really blitzing. They’re sending five-plus rushers because of how often they line up in five-down fronts. With three interior defensive linemen flanked by big outside linebackers in Rashan Gary and Preston Smith, the Packers don’t really have anyone they want to drop in coverage off the line (remember how funny it was to watch Smith drop into coverage across from Justin Jefferson?). So they tend to just rush all five.

 

But that’s … not actually a blitz."

@Outpost31

Edited October 12, 2022 by incognito_man

[Packerraymond]

1 hour ago, Rainmaker90 said:

Anyone who understands the Xs and Os really, I am just curious on why coaches prefer zone, it seems much more complicated. 

Pretty much what CWood already said, if you're in true cover 0, your safeties will have a M2M responsibility of either the RB/TE or slot. That means there is no deep help for anyone and if you're beat on a vertical route it's an explosive play with a good throw. Now there are hybrids like cover 1, which puts one safety in M2M and one safety in a deep zone, and Man-2 which is M2M with a 2 shell look from the safeties that let you get a little bit of both worlds. I wish we played more man-2 this year, with the CBs pressed up on the Z and X, we drafted Quay and paid Campbell for their ability to pick up a back or TE. We're not using it enough IMO. It's rare to see M2M in the NFL these days without some sort of blitz, the route trees and "scramble drill" concepts that are out there these days make it too risky to simply run man without bringing pressure. 

[incognito_man]

1 hour ago, packfanfb said:

Interesting comments here. Forgot Denver hired Evero who reportedly was the runner up to Barry for us (after Leonhard said no). 

Decent read. But he kinda ruined the entire thing by calling MVS our 2nd best WR. 

[CWood21]

FWIW, our opponents' ANY/A is 5.16 if you exclude the Minnesota game, which would rank 28th for all QBs last year.  The CMP% of 73.3% would be #1 though.