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Who’s Worse - Vance or Mac?


AnAngryAmerican

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Mcdaniels wasn't a terrible coach to me he was a terrible gm. Like worst I've ever seen type bad. 

Vance Joeseph seems like a guy just there going through the motions. Like what does he do? Is he the type of coach that puts the time in? He's just kinda there. 

 

Vance Joseph has that lost Tod McShay look.

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31 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I mean, at least McDaniels initially had a really nice run. He had the players motivated and busting their butts. You cant take that initial success away from Mac. His true issues came with the absurd amount of control he was handed, and eventually his abrasive personality lost the locker room. But initially, he was a success. You cant really say that for Vance.

They both suck. Vance is a ghost and McDaniels was a ******. But the ****** initially got a team playing really well, until everyone realized he was a ******. The ghost wasn't ever there to begin with.

McDaniels came in and traded a potential franchise quarterback lol. His worst move was probably his first move. 

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Literally none of our struggles now are because of personnel decisions VJ has made.   All of our QB's suck.   Our starting RT's suck.  Our 3rd WR and TE's suck.   Our ILB's outside Marshall suck (and frankly, with the shoulder injury, and hammy, Marshall's a shell of his elite 2015 form too).   Our interior pass rush sucks.   

VJ may not have an answer - but that's because our talent issues are too great to overcome IMO.   He may not the answer....but he's not the problem (and remember, I was in the Kyle Shanahan corner for HC, so I don't say any of the above but from the outside).

McDisaster came in and made the team in his image - and it flamed out spectacularly.   That is hands-down way worse.   VJ probably won't even get a chance to put a stamp on this team personnel-wise.  This was a lost season with the personnel problems from the get go - so hard to attribute the same effect as McDaniel's effect had on our franchise.  The only reason this Q has come up is because of recency bias - we feel the effect of what's happening now 100x more than what happened in the past, which is why it seems close.  It really isn't.

It's McDaniels by a landslide.

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2 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

McDisaster came in and made the team in his image - and it flamed out spectacularly.   That is hands-down way worse.   VJ probably won't even get a chance to put a stamp on this team personnel-wise.  This was a lost season with the personnel problems from the get go - so hard to attribute the same effect as McDaniel's effect had on our franchise.  The only reason this Q has come up is because of recency bias - we feel the effect of what's happening now 100x more than what happened in the past, which is why it seems close.  It really isn't.

 

People need to realize that this is why VJ was the hire. Elway wanted to keep complete control. I didn't have too much to say on the coach hiring process because I frankly don't think I have the insight into the process to give an educated opinion, but I should have realized this more at the time. And really at the time none of us were as down on Elway as we are now. But yeah, Shanny and McVay weren't options because they wanted a McDaniels type of impact. That scared A LOT of people around here at the time. But Elway wasn't lettin that happen. It is what it is, but it doesn't look great as of now. 

Elway put the team here and he needs to have a good offseason personnel wise. 

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To answer the question, Mac was worse, and it's largely because he did have more control over everything that went wrong. 

Vance was a bad hire to begin with. I really don't know what it was about him that he came in as the front-runner and left. I don't see, and haven't from the get-go, what Elway & Co. must have seen. I've said it before, but the way the Dolphins defense played in the playoff game last year against the Steelers - unprepared and undisciplined with a poor game plan to stop or slow Bell, Brown, et al and lacking any sense or fire or urgency (which many of you just dismissed as irrelevant when Vance was hired - should have been a red flag. One year as a coordinator. Red flag. Checkered history during his time at CU which Elway was aware. Red flag. 

Vance isn't a leader, as Ben says he's doesn't seem to have the support of the locker room. With with what on paper looks like a good supporting coaching staff, the team has no creativity, imaginativity or ingenuity in their game-plans and in-game coaching. He doesn't know when to challenge and when not to and his overall game management is lacking. Contrast that with the other rookie head coaches around the league, some of whom don't have the half the talent on their roster that we do. 

With all that said, Mac was worse. And it wasn't just his personnel decisions, which were atrocious. He was an awful head coach. And I don't need to spend any time recanting the 234,897,342,587,239,468,678,137,489 reasons why. 

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1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

Mcdaniels wasn't a terrible coach to me he was a terrible gm. Like worst I've ever seen type bad. 

Vance Joeseph seems like a guy just there going through the motions. Like what does he do? Is he the type of coach that puts the time in? He's just kinda there. 

 

Vance Joseph has that lost Tod McShay look.

I am not defending McDiaper, but the Broncos weren't the right team for him. They didn't need an overhaul.

Right after Shanny was fired, someone on this site and in this section did a Bronco mock draft with Jim Schwartz as HC and Rod Marinelli as DC. That's what this team needed (bring in someone to fix the D, re-up Jeremy Bates, and let him and Cutler handle the O).

Mickey D's would have been a better fit for the Rams, who had no talent whatsoever in 2009 outside of Steven Jackson and Chris Long.

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2 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

I am not defending McDiaper, but the Broncos weren't the right team for him. They didn't need an overhaul.

Right after Shanny was fired, someone on this site and in this section did a Bronco mock draft with Jim Schwartz as HC and Rod Marinelli as DC. That's what this team needed (bring in someone to fix the D, re-up Jeremy Bates, and let him and Cutler handle the O).

Mickey D's would have been a better fit for the Rams, who had no talent whatsoever in 2009 outside of Steven Jackson and Chris Long.

And two years later Mac went to the Rams as their OC and coordinated what was one of the worst offenses, by multiple measures, in the history of the league. 

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They can “respect” him but that doesn’t make him a good head coach.

 

Having said that I don’t really ever believe in firing a guy after his first year, so for me he should get next year to at least show a bit of fight. If he is let go then I wonder if it might be Klint Kubiak who gets the job. 

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1 hour ago, paul-mac said:

They can “respect” him but that doesn’t make him a good head coach.

 

Having said that I don’t really ever believe in firing a guy after his first year, so for me he should get next year to at least show a bit of fight. If he is let go then I wonder if it might be Klint Kubiak who gets the job. 

Please never suggest this again.

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Can't say I'm at all surprised to see this, but the Vance apologists at Mile High Report have come out of the woodwork.

Twice

With more to come I'm sure. 

Can't say it's surprising. I'd wager it was Smyth or maybe even Joe Ellis who got into their ears and maybe even threatened the revocation of their credentials. 

Sad. These last 10 months are just becoming more and more like the McDaniels era. At least the forum seems to be relatively united in agreement on the franchise's mistakes this time around. 

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One thing about McDaniels I've said before and still stand by is this- he was 100% ahead of the curve when it came to the phenomenon of dual threat QBs and the evolving spread/read-option offenses in the NFL. That was viewed as a college gimmick and the time, but when McDaniels drafted Tebow, it was with an eye towards installing that type of offense, which teams like Seattle have been incredibly successful using. The big problem is that Tebow wasn't the right pick, and he missed on a number of other draft picks. Beyond that, he was totally abrasive as a GM and seemed uninterested in getting any feedback from anyone. 

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