Heinicke to be the Starter Moving Forward

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

I guess we're at a point where Heinicke isn't the reason we've gone 5-1-1 in his starts and it wasn't Wentz fault we were 2-4 in his starts. I'll be happy when Wentz is off this roster and I don't have to hear about him anymore. The Wentz of 2017 is never coming back. 

Agreed, I’ve grown tired of the Wentz chatter on here and on Twitter like somehow he’s magically going to be the QB he was from 2017-2019 bc he had two months off and got to watch Heinicke win games from the sideline.

Do I think if Wentz hadn’t gotten hurt that we’d probably have a similar record? I guess maybe one game different as I think Heinicke definitely made some plays in some of our games that Wentz wouldn’t have, but it really doesn’t matter. This is clearly Heinicke’s team at the moment.
 

As you said, we’re 5-1-1 with TH as a starter & one or two throws, a bad int & a bad sack away from being 7-0 w/ Heinicke as our starter this year.

[Scott Land]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

I guess we're at a point where Heinicke isn't the reason we've gone 5-1-1 in his starts and it wasn't Wentz fault we were 2-4 in his starts. I'll be happy when Wentz is off this roster and I don't have to hear about him anymore. The Wentz of 2017 is never coming back. 

Well you're right, Heinicke isn't the reason we've gone 5-1-1. But he sure did lose the game against the Vikings. I thought he was bad for a lot of the game yesterday but came up big in the 4th with that drive, which is one thing he is good at. But we aren't going to talk about how we scored 10 points in the 1st quarter and then just couldn't move the ball? He just limits this offense so much because he can't throw the ball downfield. I don't get how you can't see that. 

[Scott Land]

12 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I ageee. If anything Wentz’s accuracy will be worse bc he’s still coming for a broken finger & wouldn’t have played for 2 months if Rivera would for some reason stupidly start Wentz over Heinicke in two weeks vs the Giants.

And @Scott Land Wentz is only .3% higher this year, so Heinicke & him essentially have the same competition %.

This is the hypocrisy I have been talking about. How can you say his accuracy is terrible and then talk about how it's only .3% higher. Is it higher or not? Even if it's the exact same that would mean he has to be terrible too right? 

[Scott Land]

11 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Agreed, I’ve grown tired of the Wentz chatter on here and on Twitter like somehow he’s magically going to be the QB he was from 2017-2019 bc he had two months off and got to watch Heinicke win games from the sideline.

Do I think if Wentz hadn’t gotten hurt that we’d probably have a similar record? I guess maybe one game different as I think Heinicke definitely made some plays in some of our games that Wentz wouldn’t have, but it really doesn’t matter. This is clearly Heinicke’s team at the moment.
 

As you said, we’re 5-1-1 with TH as a starter & one or two throws, a bad int & a bad sack away from being 7-0 w/ Heinicke as our starter this year.

I don't think anyone has said he's the same QB he was in 2017. At least I know I haven't, and I've stated multiple times he's not great by any means, but he throws the ball better than Taylor and with our receivers why not give them a chance to make plays downfield? Playing QB my whole life maybe I just like being able to throw the ball and not have these games where we can only run the ball to win games and rely on the defense to makes stops all the time. 

[Umbaugh21]

3 minutes ago, Scott Land said:

I don't think anyone has said he's the same QB he was in 2017. At least I know I haven't, and I've stated multiple times he's not great by any means, but he throws the ball better than Taylor and with our receivers why not give them a chance to make plays downfield? Playing QB my whole life maybe I just like being able to throw the ball and not have these games where we can only run the ball to win games and rely on the defense to makes stops all the time. 

This ball traveled 45 yards in the air and was on the dot... I don't think Heinicke "can't" throw the deep ball effectively. Unless you are asking him to throw it 75 yards in the air... and you don't win games by relying on 75 yard bombs (hence why we lost to the titans). Whoever can make the easy throws and not get sacked and convert third downs is who should be on the field. Our O-Line does not block long enough for these deep shots to consistently work. 

[Scott Land]

18 minutes ago, Umbaugh21 said:

This ball traveled 45 yards in the air and was on the dot... I don't think Heinicke "can't" throw the deep ball effectively. Unless you are asking him to throw it 75 yards in the air... and you don't win games by relying on 75 yard bombs (hence why we lost to the titans). Whoever can make the easy throws and not get sacked and convert third downs is who should be on the field. Our O-Line does not block long enough for these deep shots to consistently work. 

That was the best throw I've seen him make here. It was also the one time on a deep ball Terry didn't have to come back to get it and make a crazy catch. I can find a lot more underthrown balls than throws like that if we're being honest.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Scott Land

[Umbaugh21]

41 minutes ago, Scott Land said:

That was the best throw I've seen him make here. It was also the one time on a deep ball Terry didn't have to come back to get it and make a crazy catch. I can find a lot more underthrown balls than throws like that if we're being honest.

I agree, but the notion that we absolutely cannot throw a deep ball when Heinicke is in the game at QB is not correct. Heinicke has multiple 40 plus air yard completions in this offense since he's been here. 
 

Can he do it consistently? Probably not. But I do not think Wentz can either. The best natural passer on our team is probably Howell, but he's not ready yet. 

[Scott Land]

21 minutes ago, Umbaugh21 said:

I agree, but the notion that we absolutely cannot throw a deep ball when Heinicke is in the game at QB is not correct. Heinicke has multiple 40 plus air yard completions in this offense since he's been here. 
 

Can he do it consistently? Probably not. But I do not think Wentz can either. The best natural passer on our team is probably Howell, but he's not ready yet. 

Wentz did it on multiple occasions. Just off the top of my head, Terry vs Jax, he had a deep ball to Terry the Eagles game that didn't go for a touchdown, Dyami vs the Titans twice, deep ball to curtis against the bears that he dropped. Taylor has only done that once in how many games? It hurts a team when the quarterback can't make certain throws and you can disagree if you want but I'm not going to change my mind about that. 

[aceinthehouse]

If Wentz had been our QB this whole time, he probably would have a lot of passing yardage.

And we'd be 4-9 right now.

Let's see...we were 2-4 when he got hurt during bears game & we won.

We probably win vs G.B & Texans.

And would have lost the rest, including Giants game.

Had Heinicke been starting all season?

We would be 9-3-1 right now.

We would have won vs Titans & Lions.

So, I'm probably not gonna be on board with the Pull Heinicke for Wentz train.

I like to win.

Even if Gumby is my QB.

Edited December 5, 2022 by aceinthehouse

[Scott Land]

31 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

If Wentz had been our QB this whole time, he probably would have a lot of passing yardage.

And we'd be 4-9 right now.

Let's see...we were 2-4 when he got hurt during bears game & we won.

We probably win vs G.B & Texans.

And would have lost the rest, including Giants game.

Had Heinicke been starting all season?

We would be 9-3-1 right now.

We would have won vs Titans & Lions.

So, I'm probably not gonna be on board with the Pull Heinicke for Wentz train.

I like to win.

Even if Gumby is my QB.

What makes you think we would've beat the Titans and Lions if Taylor played? The defense gave up 22 points in the first half to the Lions. If Taylor has to come back from that I don't think it's happening. The defense didn't really start playing well until the Bears game. And against the Titans Wentz threw for 359 and 2 TD's with an INT. You think Taylor is putting up numbers close to that? 

[lavar703]

3 hours ago, Scott Land said:

Well you're right, Heinicke isn't the reason we've gone 5-1-1. But he sure did lose the game against the Vikings. I thought he was bad for a lot of the game yesterday but came up big in the 4th with that drive, which is one thing he is good at. But we aren't going to talk about how we scored 10 points in the 1st quarter and then just couldn't move the ball? He just limits this offense so much because he can't throw the ball downfield. I don't get how you can't see that. 

So is Wentz the reason we lost the titans game? 

[e16bball]

3 hours ago, Umbaugh21 said:

This ball traveled 45 yards in the air and was on the dot... I don't think Heinicke "can't" throw the deep ball effectively. Unless you are asking him to throw it 75 yards in the air... and you don't win games by relying on 75 yard bombs (hence why we lost to the titans). Whoever can make the easy throws and not get sacked and convert third downs is who should be on the field. Our O-Line does not block long enough for these deep shots to consistently work. 

He made that throw on an October day where it was 65+ degrees out and very little wind. It’s a completely different concept to ask him to make throws like that in windy, sub-freezing conditions. He doesn’t have the arm for it, and he can’t do it — as we see routinely any time he plays in tough weather. 

I’m really not sure why we’re even discussing deep passing here. It’s so obvious that Wentz is superior in this area that it seems like kind of a waste of time. Aside from just watching them throw the ball, Wentz had 9 completions of 30 or more yards in 6 starts (one of which featured a broken finger for much of it). Heinicke has 5 in 7 starts, one of which was the blind heave to Terry and one of which was the desperate hurl into triple coverage to Samuel. 

It’s entirely possible to still advocate for Heinicke while conceding that he’s much less capable down the field than Wentz is. He can still be the best choice despite that. But there’s really no sense in pretending they’re mostly comparable in that aspect — they aren’t. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by e16bball

[turtle28]

5 hours ago, Scott Land said:

This is the hypocrisy I have been talking about. How can you say his accuracy is terrible and then talk about how it's only .3% higher. Is it higher or not? Even if it's the exact same that would mean he has to be terrible too right? 

I never said Heinicke was accurate either. Neither one of them are. They both throw off their back foot a lot, they don’t transfer their weight well on all their throws which causes their passes to sail. Their mechanics aren’t always great. They really have a lot of the same issues at QB. The difference between the two is Carson has a stronger arm while Taylor is more mobile & evades a lot of sacks with the way he moves in & out of the pocket.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

So is Wentz the reason we lost the titans game? 

Certainly a factor in it with that awful last throw which was an int when he had other receivers open.

[turtle28]

@Scott Land