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Race for the #1 pick


beardown3231

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30 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

So, you are going to roll with a running back at QB? Justin Fields could be an upgraded version of Taysom Hill.  

Bryce Young, while small, has the IT factor at quarterback. You don't pass on those type of guys. I wouldn't touch the kid from OSU. 

I'll answer honestly since most people here are to blind to see that Fields needs to progress a lot as a passer. But for next year at least the Bears will definitely go with Fields at QB, they have to upgrade every where around him and hopefully he can take that step like other QBs have. As for Bryce Young having the IT factor, Fields had every bit of that in college also. Whether it works out for either of them in the NFL is yet to be determined.

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54 minutes ago, blkwdw13 said:

I'll answer honestly since most people here are to blind to see that Fields needs to progress a lot as a passer. But for next year at least the Bears will definitely go with Fields at QB, they have to upgrade every where around him and hopefully he can take that step like other QBs have. As for Bryce Young having the IT factor, Fields had every bit of that in college also. Whether it works out for either of them in the NFL is yet to be determined.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the knock-on Fields coming out of college was his inability to read defenses. His processing was not where many scouts wanted it to be to be a top-notch NFL QB. 

You hear no such thing about Bryce Young. 

It's the one position in the NFL you have to get right, no matter what. Taking Young and giving Fields another year makes a ton of sense to me. The amount of cap space you have you can fill in holes via free agency. 

 

Edited by Old Guy
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Old Guy said:

So, you are going to roll with a running back at QB? Justin Fields could be an upgraded version of Taysom Hill.  

Bryce Young, while small, has the IT factor at quarterback. You don't pass on those type of guys. I wouldn't touch the kid from OSU. 

He's been statistically and analytically one of the best 12 QB's in the NFL this year

Regardless I don't think your question is far fetched. I would not be surprised at all if Poles wants his guy. I wouldn't though. I'd give him a year with guys a little better than you and I playing WR and OL. If Bryce Young had to endure this supporting cast, he would literally be broken in half already

Edited by beardown3231
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1 minute ago, beardown3231 said:

He's been statistically and analytically one of the best 12 QB's in the NFL this year.

Regardless I don't think your question is far fetched. I would not be surprised at all if Poles wants his guy. I wouldn't though. I'd give him a year with guys a little better than you and I playing WR and OL.

Dogs that chase cars and running quarterbacks have one thing in common. If he can't turn into a quarterback who can sit in the pocket, read defenses and pick them apart, he's going to have a short career.

Agree on WR talent or lack thereof. 

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2 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Dogs that chase cars and running quarterbacks have one thing in common. If he can't turn into a quarterback who can sit in the pocket, read defenses and pick them apart, he's going to have a short career.

Agree on WR talent or lack thereof. 

I say this not being a d*** but I want you to (painfully) watch the replay of the Bears game yesterday. It's hard to sit in the pocket when your OT's are being pushed back almost every drop back and your iOL is being abused. I don't disagree with your statement about reading defenses and picking them apart but I'm not sure this is the year to make that judgement. If they actually upgrade the OL next year and the WR's (not sure how much they can to be honest in terms of WR) next year & this is still going on week 7 and on, he's done

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18 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

I say this not being a d*** but I want you to (painfully) watch the replay of the Bears game yesterday. It's hard to sit in the pocket when your OT's are being pushed back almost every drop back and your iOL is being abused. I don't disagree with your statement about reading defenses and picking them apart but I'm not sure this is the year to make that judgement. If they actually upgrade the OL next year and the WR's (not sure how much they can to be honest in terms of WR) next year & this is still going on week 7 and on, he's done

My only point is I'd not pass on a franchise QB if I'm sitting at 1 in the draft. I love Bryce Young, not so much Shroud. I don't see what you guys see in Fields. We both look at the situation from a point of bias though. 

If I'm in the Bears position and we have the #1 pick in the draft, I'm taking Young and telling him and Fields, this is Fields team for 2023. If Fields works out, you can still dump Young for a boatload of picks/talent. 

If you guys wind up at 1 and don't want a quarterback and trade down and don't get either Will Anderson or Jalen Carter, then you've f'ed up the draft. 

Also, I live in Michigan and watched the game. You guys are challenged from a talent standpoint, but understand you have more cap space next year than anybody, by a lot. 

Edited by Old Guy
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2 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

I say this not being a d*** but I want you to (painfully) watch the replay of the Bears game yesterday. It's hard to sit in the pocket when your OT's are being pushed back almost every drop back and your iOL is being abused. I don't disagree with your statement about reading defenses and picking them apart but I'm not sure this is the year to make that judgement. If they actually upgrade the OL next year and the WR's (not sure how much they can to be honest in terms of WR) next year & this is still going on week 7 and on, he's done

See, but this is where I think a lot of us unbiased folks don't understand the move. What are Bears fans realistically hoping to accomplish giving Fields another year?

BEST CASE - He turns into 2019 Lamar. But even Ravens fans are on the fence about paying Lamar or not given his style of play and ability to stay healthy. And Lamar has produced a freakin' MVP lol. I understand Fields has been able to stay relatively healthy, but that's obviously a concern given the style of play. And really, you need 2 years of good play. Because a great year next year followed by bombing in 2024 makes his contract situation difficult. Also, this probably takes the Bears to 10+ wins and out of contention for a top QB in the 2024 draft (without giving up major assets).

MAYBE CASE - He plays well in 2023 then gets hurt midway through the season. Now you have to push his "evaluation year" to 2024 and the rebuild is a few years away. Again, probably plays well enough to keep you from QB1 or QB2 in the next draft. 

WORST CASE - He bombs in 2023 and turns out he just can't make that next step as a passer. Potentially now you are in position for the QB1 or QB2 in 2024, but again you are another year out from a complete rebuild. Assuming Fields is trash and you go with another QB, do you maintain the HC/GM or blow everything up? Because seems like the HC/GM would argue that they need "their guy" and then you get stuck in the rebuilding loop for years.

I kind of like @Old Guy's theory of taking a top QB and at least having the trade bait in either Fields or the QB, depending on Fields' play, tbh, even if his phrasing is a bit abrasive. But Bears fans seem to be united behind Fields, so there's probably something I'm missing tbh.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Soggust said:

See, but this is where I think a lot of us unbiased folks don't understand the move. What are Bears fans realistically hoping to accomplish giving Fields another year?

BEST CASE - He turns into 2019 Lamar. But even Ravens fans are on the fence about paying Lamar or not given his style of play and ability to stay healthy. And Lamar has produced a freakin' MVP lol. I understand Fields has been able to stay relatively healthy, but that's obviously a concern given the style of play. And really, you need 2 years of good play. Because a great year next year followed by bombing in 2024 makes his contract situation difficult. Also, this probably takes the Bears to 10+ wins and out of contention for a top QB in the 2024 draft (without giving up major assets).

MAYBE CASE - He plays well in 2023 then gets hurt midway through the season. Now you have to push his "evaluation year" to 2024 and the rebuild is a few years away. Again, probably plays well enough to keep you from QB1 or QB2 in the next draft. 

WORST CASE - He bombs in 2023 and turns out he just can't make that next step as a passer. Potentially now you are in position for the QB1 or QB2 in 2024, but again you are another year out from a complete rebuild. Assuming Fields is trash and you go with another QB, do you maintain the HC/GM or blow everything up? Because seems like the HC/GM would argue that they need "their guy" and then you get stuck in the rebuilding loop for years.

I kind of like @Old Guy's theory of taking a top QB and at least having the trade bait in either Fields or the QB, depending on Fields' play, tbh, even if his phrasing is a bit abrasive. But Bears fans seem to be united behind Fields, so there's probably something I'm missing tbh.

 

18 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

My only point is I'd not pass on a franchise QB if I'm sitting at 1 in the draft. I love Bryce Young, not so much Shroud. I don't see what you guys see in Fields. We both look at the situation from a point of bias though. 

If I'm in the Bears position and we have the #1 pick in the draft, I'm taking Young and telling him and Fields, this is Fields team for 2023. If Fields works out, you can still dump Young for a boatload of picks/talent. 

If you guys wind up at 1 and don't want a quarterback and trade down and don't get either Will Anderson or Jalen Carter, then you've f'ed up the draft. 

Also, I live in Michigan and watched the game. You guys are challenged from a talent standpoint, but understand you have more cap space next year than anybody, by a lot. 

Probably because from an athletic standpoint he's easily one of the top tier QB's in football. Does he need to work on his mechanics and reading a defense? Sure he does. A lot of QB's have come into the league and been drafted high and needed those things. If he's awful in 2023, they can take Maye or Williams and the rest of the roster would (ideally) be set up for him with their draft picks and cap space.

Look at my posts from the 4th quarter on in the gamethread yesterday. I said I wouldn't be shocked if they took Young. I'm not sure Poles will because I'm not sure at this stage what Fields' trade value would be & I'm not sure Fields has had a fair shake so far, but I wouldn't put it past Poles. What I will say is they tried to suck this year but I wouldn't think it would be this bad. Either Poles did know or he's a terrible evaluator and then I'm not sure it will matter who plays QB.

Edited by beardown3231
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So as both of you are suggesting to take a QB at 1 and not use that resource to build up the team around a QB. If Fields doesn't progress then they go after another QB because they will be picking high again but now they have more in place to support said QB and are in a better place for the long road. Fields hasn't been Rosen level bad where you 100% know what he is, give him support unlike this year and see what happens, if he doesn't progress then move on.

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13 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

 

Probably because from an athletic standpoint he's easily one of the top tier QB's in football. Does he need to work on his mechanics and reading a defense? Sure he does. A lot of QB's have come into the league and been drafted high and needed those things. If he's awful in 2023, they can take Maye or Williams and the rest of the roster would (ideally) be set up for him with their draft picks and cap space.

 

12 minutes ago, blkwdw13 said:

So as both of you are suggesting to take a QB at 1 and not use that resource to build up the team around a QB. If Fields doesn't progress then they go after another QB because they will be picking high again but now they have more in place to support said QB and are in a better place for the long road. Fields hasn't been Rosen level bad where you 100% know what he is, give him support unlike this year and see what happens, if he doesn't progress then move on.

 

It sounds to me like you guys are just content with taking a year to build around Fields, and I get it. I'm not saying you are wrong, per se, I just don't understand what the expectations of Fields are to make people confident in him going forward. Because, quite frankly, Justin Fields improving might be the worst thing that can happen in the long run, imo.

Because unless he produces two years of healthy MVP Lamar, how confident are we really going to be when it comes time to resign/commit to him? And if they aren't going to resign/commit, will they be in a position to take a top QB like they are now? Especially if they build a better team around him?

It sucks to dump talent, I get it. And maybe I'm just objectively wrong, that's okay. This just inherently feels to me like a "potential gets people fired" scenario. I don't see the Bears (as an organization) picking top 5 in perpetuity like some other franchises, so it seems like it would be time to capitalize on the pick. 

 

Edited by Soggust
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Soggust said:

 

 

It sounds to me like you guys are just content with taking a year to build around Fields, and I get it. I'm not saying you are wrong, per se, I just don't understand what the expectations of Fields are to make people confident in him going forward. Because, quite frankly, Justin Fields improving might be the worst thing that can happen in the long run, imo.

Because unless he produces two years of healthy MVP Lamar, how confident are we really going to be when it comes time to resign/commit to him? And if they aren't going to resign/commit, will they be in a position to take a top QB like they are now? Especially if they build a better team around him?

It sucks to dump talent, I get it. And maybe I'm just objectively wrong, that's okay. This just inherently feels to me like a "potential gets people fired" scenario. I don't see the Bears (as an organization) picking top 5 in perpetuity like some other franchises, so it seems like it would be time to capitalize on the pick. 

 

And that might be the decision Poles makes. Pace did the same in 2017. He knew he'd never be picking top 3 again. Poles may load up at WR and OL (and **** hopefully DL but that's another discussion) and let Young be the guy to play with that supporting cast. I just don't think he will.

Also, the best case scenario is Fields turns out to be a good passer with the ability to run when he needs to. I think his ceiling is much higher than Jackson's is. I'm sure you disagree on that.

Also you're giving the Bears organization way too much credit. They are and have been a pathetic organization. Nobody leans on championship from 42 years ago quite like this one. They've won 2 playoff games in the last 15 years. If keeping Fields gets Poles and Eberflus fired after the 2024 season, so be it, but it's not like the owners have any sense of how to behave like anything other than a cowardly organization.

Edited by beardown3231
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